Unrecognised Blazon - what to do next?

[Rock Vacirca]

Further to my first post about identifying the 19 coat of arms in the windows of Ellerton Church in the East Riding during the Visitation of 1584. The arms are tricked in Harl. Ms 1394, and blazoned in Foster's edition of the Visitation of Yorkshire 1584/5 by Robert Glover. This particular coat has me puzzled:

Argent, 3 asses' heads couped gules.

This blazon is not in Papworth, and the fourth volume of
Dictionary of British Arms, which would deal with Heads (beasts), is not
published yet.

Does anyone have ideas how I might go about identifying the name
associated with this blazon, if Papworth draws a blank?

Thanks

[p***@gmail.com]

I found this:

Moreton
Argent, three ass's heads erased Gules. 

http://cheshire-heraldry.org.uk/vale_royal/VRE18.html

(Erased and not couped.)
---
Satoru Uemura

[Rock Vacirca]

Thanks for that link.

Those Moreton arms are not noticed in Papworth either. The Vale Royal is not an authority, it is just a catalogue of the arms that an heraldic painter produced for his client, however, it is no less interesting.

All of the arms I have managed to identify so far date from the mid 14th century, and I am inclined to believe that all the arms date from this period, and that the glazing of the windows took place at the same time.

The arms in the window of Ellerton Church, which prior to the Dissolution was a Gilbertine priory, is almost certainly those of a patron of the priory, or some local important family. Unfortunately I have managed to eliminate all the potential candidates.

My only hope is that the Dictionary of British Arms has this blazon recorded, where Papworth failed. Unless anyone has any other ideas...

[Rock Vacirca]

Thanks for that link.

Those Moreton arms are not noticed in Papworth either. The Vale Royal is not an authority, it is just a catalogue of the arms that an heraldic painter produced for his clients, however, it is no less interesting.

Heads that are erased vs. couped have very different connotations, and the trick definitely shows couped, so I do not believe the Moreton arms, whether authoritative or not, has any connection with the arms in Ellerton church.

All of the arms I have managed to identify so far date from the early to mid 14th century, and I am inclined to believe that all the arms date from this period, and that the glazing of the windows with the 19 arms were done in one go. So this unidentified blazon is contemporary with: Pickering; Salvayn; de Ros; William de Melton (Archbishop of York, 1317-1340); Beauchamp; Cave; Mowbray, etc.

The arms in the window of Ellerton Church, which prior to the Dissolution was a Gilbertine priory, is almost certainly those of a patron of the priory, or some local important family. Unfortunately I have managed to eliminate all the potential candidates.

My only hope is that the Dictionary of British Arms has this blazon recorded, where Papworth failed. Unless anyone has any other ideas...

[p***@gmail.com]

Post by Rock Vacirca
Heads that are erased vs. couped have very different connotations, and the trick definitely shows couped, so I do not believe the Moreton arms, whether authoritative or not, has any connection with the arms in Ellerton church.

Thank you for pointing out the significance of the difference between
erased and couped.
I thought it could be possible that there was mistranscription(s) (from the
window to the blazon, etc.); now I should abandon this idea.

As far as I just googled, all I could find are less similar arms:

Ascue (Lincolnshire). ... betw. three asses' heads couped sa.
Ascue. ... betw. three asses' heads couped or ...
http://books.google.co.jp/books?id=Ur5VAAAAcAAJ&pg=RA1-PT30&lpg=RA1-PT30#v=onepage&q&f=false

... between 3 Asses heads couped (Aisgill)
https://archive.org/stream/parochialcollpt200wooduoft#page/130/mode/2up

Have you consulted the other Yorkshire Visitations?
http://www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/sources/visitations.shtml
---
Satoru Uemura

[Rock Vacirca]

Post by p***@gmail.com

Post by Rock Vacirca
Heads that are erased vs. couped have very different connotations, and the trick definitely shows couped, so I do not believe the Moreton arms, whether authoritative or not, has any connection with the arms in Ellerton church.

Thank you for pointing out the significance of the difference between
erased and couped.
I thought it could be possible that there was mistranscription(s) (from the
window to the blazon, etc.); now I should abandon this idea.
Ascue (Lincolnshire). ... betw. three asses' heads couped sa.
Ascue. ... betw. three asses' heads couped or ...
http://books.google.co.jp/books?id=Ur5VAAAAcAAJ&pg=RA1-PT30&lpg=RA1-PT30#v=onepage&q&f=false
... between 3 Asses heads couped (Aisgill)
https://archive.org/stream/parochialcollpt200wooduoft#page/130/mode/2up
Have you consulted the other Yorkshire Visitations?
http://www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/sources/visitations.shtml
---
Satoru Uemura

Yes, I have copies of all the Yorkshire Visitations, but none with asses in the coats.

Coats featuring Asses are invariable used as a pun on the family name, as in Askew, etc.

I had hoped that the coat was an early one used by the Aske family, who were prominent in the area, but then later dropped.

I am thinking that my only hope is the Dictionary of British Arms, Vol 4; or the unpublished visitations; or Warburton's Map. Failing all that, I will have to cough up the £200-£300 fees of the College of Heralds to give me the answer (which could be nil).

[Rock Vacirca]

Post by Rock Vacirca
Argent, 3 asses' heads couped gules.
This blazon is not in Papworth, and the fourth volume of
Dictionary of British Arms, which would deal with Heads (beasts), is not
published yet.
Does anyone have ideas how I might go about identifying the name
associated with this blazon, if Papworth draws a blank?
Thanks

Having now received vol 4 of The Dictionary of British Arms, Medieval Ordinary, I was a little crestfallen when the above blazon (Argent, 3 asses' heads couped gules)was not listed.

I am wondering if the reading of the coat in the windows of Ellerton Priory church by the Herald was in error.

Could the experts in the group have a look at the photograph of the coat in question(now residing in Selby Abbey), and let me know if what is depicted could be something other than Argent 3 asses' heads couped gules (I have checked horses in the Dictionary too).

Here is the Dropbox link to the photograph (the coat is the on the left of the second row):

Loading Image...

Thanks

Rock