I'm grateful for your comments, Derek, please allow me to answer ///// between the lines.
***** Thanks for this. However, I have to say that your language of semiotics obscures, for me at least, the analysis you are trying to present. I am not sure and remain to be convinced that the terminology, discretion index, encoding etc., add anything to our understanding of the adoption of these arms.
/////The terminology was used in my thesis for those concepts that didn't exist before anywhere and that should be mentioned frequently. It starts a whole new way to face heraldry, although based in previous knowledge, like canting arms. If I didn't use these concepts I am afraid that things would be even more obscure. In fact they are key for the understanding of my methodology. Unfortunately the thesis is in Portuguese and the publishing rights belong to the University of Porto, probably it will never be translated. That's why I started the blog.
Of course, if you agree or disagree with the appropriateness of my methodology to know how the visual elements of heraldry appear in a blazon it's an entirely different matter. I published a brief explanation of terminology and methods in this very blog at:
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/rec.heraldry/W3lJmPnUvGM
***** There is also a degree of certainty relating to interpretation (reference to “probabilistic”) which should perhaps be tempered with more extensive caveats.
///// That's why I used a quite dull element in my exemplification, "cinc" (Old French for five), and all other elements were also assumed in its simple form. The problem for this approach isn't the words, but the visual part. How many words can generate five elements? Not many, but how many can generate a circle? But we also must note that the creator of the arms follows the path in the opposite direction than us, that is, from words to visual. The subject is too complex to be modelled with simple mathematics but it is clear that, when two or more textual elements are used, like in Je ruse la Haine (the main cross), probabilities of coincidence go dimmer. But to evaluate the model you also have to consider what the remaining components stand for.
***** Your bibliography could be more extensive, others have also seen and written the linkages between the attributed arms and the coinage of Edward the Confessor. Off the top of my head I can think of a former lecturer of mine at university in the 1970s, Prof. Michael Dolley, who was a leading expert on Anglo-Saxon coinage. I seem to remember that there are a couple of articles footnoted in Frank Barlow’s discussion in his standard biography of Edward (Yale English Monarchs series).
///// The bibliographic references for the thesis may be found at the blog. My approach to each subject just doesn't need many elements: The languages used at the time, four or five geographic elements of the territory under analysis, the name and status of the bearer. I studied more than 2.000 of these and never needed to use the "traditional" approach to justify the drawings and colours, they were all "canting" (I prefer parophonic which is a wider concept). I only propose solutions for the primitive (those intended by the creator) semantics of medieval arms; the analysis of these results and its consistency should be done by other specialists in the field like you.
***** It is worth noting that the cult of Edward did not start with Richard II and his well-known use of, and granting of permission to use, the attributed arms.
Rather this was a manifestation of the cult established by Henry III. Henry III oversaw the reconstruction of Edward’s foundation at Westminster and included his arms there (see David A Carpenter: "The Reign of Henry III", 2003, p 96).
///// My point on the coins was that they were first minted while Edward wasn't still a Saint (he was canonized in 1161). He was known very early as "the Confessor", which also points out to sanctity.
***** It is worth exploring the use of the bird, probably doves, further. Prof. Carpenter’s essay and chapter "The Burial of Henry III, the Regalia and Royal Ideology", in his book, pp 427 et seq. discusses (p 440) Henry's adoption of the dove, from its association with Edward the Confessor and Edward’s penny being the model for the gold penny of Henry III.
///// As you can imagine it is impossible for me to follow all of my 2,000 representations and how people used to explain it before. I am convinced that most of my explanations are right and the method is the same for all the explanations I produced. To be refuted generally means to refute my methodology, to be refuted specifically means to find a better explanation than mine, either parophonic or not. Of course I am more interested in the first kind of refutation.
***** Also, for instance, (p 441) the royal rod or 'virga' surmounted with a dove included in the coronation regalia. This is described as "uniquely an emblem of the Confessor, for subsequent kings had omitted it from their seals" but included in his first great seal by Henry. It may have been intended to emphasise Henry, as Edward, as a 'rex pacificus', a king of the dove not the sword.
///// The latter is an explanation maybe as good as a bird of a flock but didn't Edward fight and killed his enemies by war and murder?
***** Perhaps, maybe, the Azure and Or tinctures of Edward’s arms may relate to Henry’s esteem for the Virgin Mary. Henry’s first works at Westminster Abbey were the construction of the original Lady chapel there.
///// The French said something similar about their arms. The problem is: that's kind of vague, isn't it? My approach is systematic; the reasons are always the same for all arms.
***** In addition, there are interesting elements to the Bayeux tapestry that I have not seen noted before. Edward the Confessor is shown enthroned at the start of the narrative. In the lower margin two birds heads reversed sit below. Though therre are odd appearances in the upper margin, which may or may not be significant, we also next see one below Edward on the throne when Harold returns to him from Normandy, shortly after there are again two either side of Edward's body being carried and again under his body. Similar birds are then found near Harold's coronation and the view of the star. Other birds also occur at later points and it may be coincidence but on the other hand these instances are suggestive of a link. The last occurance of any animal on the lower border is of two of these birds lying at right angles as a Saxon foot soldier is speared above.
///// The same as above applies. You also may see in Bayeux that some figurations seen in the shields also appear in the margins. You are right on this, there is a link: it's a flock of birds (et due harde). I'm not suggesting that heraldry existed then but it had to start somehow and somewhere, maybe with coins, maybe with seals, maybe with sceptres, maybe with all these together.
Thanks a lot,
Carlos da Fonte
Post by Derek HowardPost by portingalWe've just published the sixth and last semantic level of the attributed arms
http://leeuween.com/tag/england
Thanks for this. However, I have to say that your language of semiotics obscures, for me at least, the analysis you are trying to present. I am not sure and remain to be convinced that the terminology, discretion index, encoding etc., add anything to our understanding of the adoption of these arms.
There is also a degree of certainty relating to interpretation (reference to “probabilistic”) which should perhaps be tempered with more extensive caveats.
Your bibliography could be more extensive, others have also seen and written the linkages between the attributed arms and the coinage of Edward the Confessor. Off the top of my head I can think of a former lecturer of mine at university in the 1970s, Prof. Michael Dolley, who was a leading expert on Anglo-Saxon coinage. I seem to remember that there are a couple of articles footnoted in Frank Barlow’s discussion in his standard biography of Edward (Yale English Monarchs series).
It is worth noting that the cult of Edward did not start with Richard II and his well-known use of, and granting of permission to use, the attributed arms.
Rather this was a manifestation of the cult established by Henry III. Henry III oversaw the reconstruction of Edward’s foundation at Westminster and included his arms there (see David A Carpenter: "The Reign of Henry III", 2003, p 96).
It is worth exploring the use of the bird, probably doves, further. Prof. Carpenter’s essay and chapter "The Burial of Henry III, the Regalia and Royal Ideology", in his book, pp 427 et seq. discusses (p 440) Henry's adoption of the dove, from its association with Edward the Confessor and Edward’s penny being the model for the gold penny of Henry III.
Also, for instance, (p 441) the royal rod or 'virga' surmounted with a dove included in the coronation regalia. This is described as "uniquely an emblem of the Confessor, for subsequent kings had omitted it from their seals" but included in his first great seal by Henry. It may have been intended to emphasise Henry, as Edward, as a 'rex pacificus', a king of the dove not the sword.
Perhaps, maybe, the Azure and Or tinctures of Edward’s arms may relate to Henry’s esteem for the Virgin Mary. Henry’s first works at Westminster Abbey were the construction of the original Lady chapel there.
In addition, there are interesting elements to the Bayeux tapestry that I have not seen noted before. Edward the Confessor is shown enthroned at the start of the narrative. In the lower margin two birds heads reversed sit below. Though therre are odd appearances in the upper margin, which may or may not be significant, we also next see one below Edward on the throne when Harold returns to him from Normandy, shortly after there are again two either side of Edward's body being carried and again under his body. Similar birds are then found near Harold's coronation and the view of the star. Other birds also occur at later points and it may be coincidence but on the other hand these instances are suggestive of a link. The last occurance of any animal on the lower border is of two of these birds lying at right angles as a Saxon foot soldier is speared above.
Derek Howard