Questions on the signification of the "Crown of Nobility", it's significance and use by both titled and untitled nobility

[Miss A.]

Hello,

I was looking for a forum on heraldry and this one seemed the most active. Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm Miss A. from Germany. I study first year history at a university in England, I'm passionate about heraldry and I recently got engaged.

I was a bit curious about the so called "Crown of Nobility" as used in a couple of european countries as I could not find a lot of information (Or, Three strawberry leaves, two pearls and some precious stones). I have seen it used by people from old families in germany whom did not have a title (perhaps they were untitled nobility? I don't know, does it mean they are?) and titled people as well who used it instead of the proper coronet of rank, my fiance being a good example. He is a Baron, yet his arms when depicted just with the shield and coronet use the said "Crown of Nobility".

What exactly does this mean? Is it a remnant of very early heraldry? An esthetic choice? When used above a shield on its own does this coronet indicate status, implying that even though the bearer may not be titled he is noble? Why then do noblemen use it instead of their proper rank coronet?

If anyone could enlighten me...! :)

Regards,

Miss A.

[Tim Powys-Lybbe]

Post by Miss A.
Hello,
I was looking for a forum on heraldry and this one seemed the most
active. Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm Miss A. from Germany.
I study first year history at a university in England, I'm passionate
about heraldry and I recently got engaged.
I was a bit curious about the so called "Crown of Nobility" as used in
a couple of european countries as I could not find a lot of
information (Or, Three strawberry leaves, two pearls and some precious
stones). I have seen it used by people from old families in germany
whom did not have a title (perhaps they were untitled nobility? I
don't know, does it mean they are?) and titled people as well who used
it instead of the proper coronet of rank, my fiance being a good
example. He is a Baron, yet his arms when depicted just with the
shield and coronet use the said "Crown of Nobility".
What exactly does this mean? Is it a remnant of very early heraldry?
An esthetic choice? When used above a shield on its own does this
coronet indicate status, implying that even though the bearer may not
be titled he is noble? Why then do noblemen use it instead of their
proper rank coronet?

I have no idea about any crown of nobility but, while nobility is a
foreign concept to the British isles, certificates of nobility to
foreigh powers are not foreign to us. I have seen certificates that
Scottish armigers were the equivalent of 'Adel' which might be
interpreted as similar to nobility in other countries.

So a clue to crowns of nobility might be the use of the term adel.

[Larry Slight]

Post by Miss A.
Hello,
I was looking for a forum on heraldry and >this one seemed the most active.
Please allow >me to introduce myself, I'm Miss A. from >Germany. I study
first year history at a >university in England, I'm passionate about

Post by Miss A.
heraldry and I recently got engaged.

I was a bit curious about the so called >"Crown of Nobility" as used in a
couple of >european countries as I could not find a lot >of information
(Or, Three strawberry leaves, >two pearls and some precious stones). I have

Post by Miss A.
seen it used by people from old families in >germany whom did not have a

title (perhaps >they were untitled nobility? I don't know, >does it mean
they are?) and titled people as >well who used it instead of the proper

Post by Miss A.
coronet of rank, my fiance being a good >example. He is a Baron, yet his

arms when >depicted just with the shield and coronet use >the said "Crown
of Nobility".
What exactly does this mean? Is it a remnant >of very early heraldry? An
esthetic choice? >When used above a shield on its own does >this coronet
indicate status, implying that >even though the bearer may not be titled he
is >noble? Why then do noblemen use it instead >of their proper rank
coronet?
If anyone could enlighten me...! :)
Regards,
Miss A.

Miss A.,

There are many examples of coronets or crowns used throughout Europe,
excluding of course, the United Kingdom. As was stated above, there is no
"untitled" nobility in the UK as the current holder of a Peerage is the only
formal noble. While family members of a Peer may, by courtesy, be addressed
with such a title, they have no actual standing.



In the other European countries, there are different rules and accepted
practices. In Belgium, for example, from the founding of the independent
Kingdom, untitled nobles did not use any coronet of rank. The privilege of
such a coronet was granted by Royal decree in 1957 and that coronet was
described as having three visible leaves and two pearls.

In the Netherlands, an untitled noble may use the same coronet as that used
by a knight. That would be one of 5 pearls. While such persons would not
use any coronet in France and, since crests are not usually used in Spain, a
Spanish hidalgo does not use a coronet.

The Italian Kingdoms had a number of coronets for Patricians and untitled
nobles and you might want to look that up as describing all of them might
take some time. Hungary allowed the use of a couple of designs of a coronet
if there wasn't a helm above the shield. A coronet of three leaves and two
pearls or one of five pearls could be used, however, a coronet of five
pearls never appeared on the helm.

In Germany and Austria, there were also two styles of coronet that could be
placed above the shield if no crest or helm were used similar to the
description for Hungary with the same proscription of not having the coronet
of five pearls on a helm.

The information above is from a book on Heraldry by Carl-Alexander von
Volborth.

[Miss A.]

Thank you all for the interesting information!

Dear Mr Slight,
I have a couple of books by von Vollborth, do you happen to remember the titles of said books? I'm specifically interested in the use of the "Adelskrone/Crown of Nobility" in a German context,why does a Baron such as my future husband use this coronet on his signet ring above the shield instead of using a Freiherr coronet with seven pearls? He himself does not know and says it's been used this way for centuries (His family was enobled towards the end of the 14th century).
Regards,

Miss A.

[Larry Slight]

Post by Miss A.
Thank you all for the interesting information!
Dear Mr Slight,
I have a couple of books by von Vollborth, >do you happen to remember the
titles of said >books? I'm specifically interested in the use >of the
"Adelskrone/Crown of Nobility" in a >German context,why does a Baron such
as >my future husband use this coronet on his >signet ring above the shield
instead of using a >Freiherr coronet with seven pearls? He >himself does
not know and says it's been >used this way for centuries (His family was

enobled towards the end of the 14th >century).

Regards,
Miss A.

The book is "Heraldry - Customs, Rules and Styles". As to why his family
uses any specific crown would have to be researched in Germany, specifically
the province from which the family originated. It may have originally been
a artistic choice at some period after the 14th century. Without doing the
research, it would be difficult at best for you to come up with an answer.

LE Slight

[e***@yahoo.fr]

Post by Miss A.
Hello,
I was looking for a forum on heraldry and this one seemed the most active. Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm Miss A. from Germany. I study first year history at a university in England, I'm passionate about heraldry and I recently got engaged.
I was a bit curious about the so called "Crown of Nobility" as used in a couple of european countries as I could not find a lot of information (Or, Three strawberry leaves, two pearls and some precious stones). I have seen it used by people from old families in germany whom did not have a title (perhaps they were untitled nobility? I don't know, does it mean they are?) and titled people as well who used it instead of the proper coronet of rank, my fiance being a good example. He is a Baron, yet his arms when depicted just with the shield and coronet use the said "Crown of Nobility".
What exactly does this mean? Is it a remnant of very early heraldry? An esthetic choice? When used above a shield on its own does this coronet indicate status, implying that even though the bearer may not be titled he is noble? Why then do noblemen use it instead of their proper rank coronet?
If anyone could enlighten me...! :)
Regards,
Miss A.

[e***@yahoo.fr]

Post by Miss A.
Hello,
I was looking for a forum on heraldry and this one seemed the most active. Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm Miss A. from Germany. I study first year history at a university in England, I'm passionate about heraldry and I recently got engaged.
I was a bit curious about the so called "Crown of Nobility" as used in a couple of european countries as I could not find a lot of information (Or, Three strawberry leaves, two pearls and some precious stones). I have seen it used by people from old families in germany whom did not have a title (perhaps they were untitled nobility? I don't know, does it mean they are?) and titled people as well who used it instead of the proper coronet of rank, my fiance being a good example. He is a Baron, yet his arms when depicted just with the shield and coronet use the said "Crown of Nobility".
What exactly does this mean? Is it a remnant of very early heraldry? An esthetic choice? When used above a shield on its own does this coronet indicate status, implying that even though the bearer may not be titled he is noble? Why then do noblemen use it instead of their proper rank coronet?
If anyone could enlighten me...! :)
Regards,
Miss A.

Dig on the Shettland Islands, probably part of England, you know better!

[Graham Milne]

See these:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baron_of_the_Holy_Roman_Empire

There is a distinction between a baron (freiherr), who uses a crown with 7 pearls, and a non-baronial noble (adel), who uses a crown with 5 pearls.

Graham

Post by Miss A.
Hello,
I was looking for a forum on heraldry and this one seemed the most active. Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm Miss A. from Germany. I study first year history at a university in England, I'm passionate about heraldry and I recently got engaged.
I was a bit curious about the so called "Crown of Nobility" as used in a couple of european countries as I could not find a lot of information (Or, Three strawberry leaves, two pearls and some precious stones). I have seen it used by people from old families in germany whom did not have a title (perhaps they were untitled nobility? I don't know, does it mean they are?) and titled people as well who used it instead of the proper coronet of rank, my fiance being a good example. He is a Baron, yet his arms when depicted just with the shield and coronet use the said "Crown of Nobility".
What exactly does this mean? Is it a remnant of very early heraldry? An esthetic choice? When used above a shield on its own does this coronet indicate status, implying that even though the bearer may not be titled he is noble? Why then do noblemen use it instead of their proper rank coronet?
If anyone could enlighten me...! :)
Regards,
Miss A.

[Miss A.]

Thank you Mr Slight!

Mr Milne, my future husband is a Freiherr. Could it be that his family originally belonged to the untitled nobility and later received the title Freiherr but kept the original arms? As a general rule does the said crown of nobility always indicate untitled nobility in Germany or is it also used by titled nobles or commonfolk? During my research today I found a similar coronet apparently used in France which they call the "Couronne de Noblesse", the design was identical which I thought was very intriguing!

[Graham Milne]

Post by Miss A.
Hello,
I was looking for a forum on heraldry and this one seemed the most active. Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm Miss A. from Germany. I study first year history at a university in England, I'm passionate about heraldry and I recently got engaged.
I was a bit curious about the so called "Crown of Nobility" as used in a couple of european countries as I could not find a lot of information (Or, Three strawberry leaves, two pearls and some precious stones). I have seen it used by people from old families in germany whom did not have a title (perhaps they were untitled nobility? I don't know, does it mean they are?) and titled people as well who used it instead of the proper coronet of rank, my fiance being a good example. He is a Baron, yet his arms when depicted just with the shield and coronet use the said "Crown of Nobility".
What exactly does this mean? Is it a remnant of very early heraldry? An esthetic choice? When used above a shield on its own does this coronet indicate status, implying that even though the bearer may not be titled he is noble? Why then do noblemen use it instead of their proper rank coronet?
If anyone could enlighten me...! :)
Regards,
Miss A.

I am not an expert in this area. Your best bet is to trace the original grant, failing which an authoritative source. I know very little about these but there are usually numerous lists of nobility to consult or peerage works. I did recently approach the Austrian State Archives concerning a grant of a barony of the Holy Roman Empire to a family which married into mine. They sent me loads of stuff but not including the actual grant itself (or text of). What they sent me seemed to be drafts. Anyway, they included a picture of the arms with the coronet of a freiherr. But still, without the actual words of the grant one cannot be certain. All I can be certain of is the fact that it was intended to grant a barony. Whether it was actually done is another matter. Various sources say it was e..g.

http://archive.org/details/nobilitiesofeuro01ruviuoft

Try that.

[Martin Goldstraw]

On Wednesday, October 16, 2013 9:26:35 PM UTC+1, Graham Milne wrote:
e..g. http://archive.org/details/nobilitiesofeuro01ruviuoft Try that.

As a slight aside, wasn't Ruvigny and Raineval himself something of a fake?

Martin

[Graham Milne]

Post by Martin Goldstraw
e..g. http://archive.org/details/nobilitiesofeuro01ruviuoft Try that.
As a slight aside, wasn't Ruvigny and Raineval himself something of a fake?
Martin

No, I've made him a Marquis.

The 'Correspondence and Report of the Commission appointed to inquire into the Claims of the Maltese Nobility', presented to the Houses of Parliament in May 1878 by the Governor of Malta, C. T. van Straubanzee, states:

'20. These islands were granted to the Order [of Malta] as a noble, free and absolute fee (feudum nobile, liberum, et francum) by the Emperor Charles the Fifth as King of Sicily Ultra or of the Island of Sicily, by a patent given at Castelfranco, on the 24th May 1530, under the royal seal of the Kingdom of Sicily Ultra. The Grand Masters were, by that deed, bound to acknowledge, as lords of the feud, the Kings of Sicily and their successors for the time being, to whom they were to pay annually the homage of a falcon, and from whom they were to receive the investiture, according to the enactments of the common law.
21. The Grand Masters who, under the aforesaid dependence, governed these islands as sovereign princes, were twenty-eight in number. We are not aware whether the first twenty Grand Masters from A.D. 1530 to A.D. 1710 ever created new titles of nobility; it appears only that they renewed several grants which had previously become extinct. Grand Master Lascaris, in fact, granted again in 1646 the title of 'Barone di Budack', which had been extinguished. The creation of titles of nobility was certainly an indisputable right of the Grand Masters, for on the territory subject to their jurisdiction they exercised all the power inherent in a real and full sovereignty.
22. Since that year (A.D. 1710), under the grandmastership of Fr. D. Raimondo Perellos y Roccafull, the Grand Masters began to create nobles by patent, but conferring only upon them the title of baron. Two patents were granted by the foresaid Grand Master Perellos, one on the 24th December 1879, by which he created the barony of Gomerino, and on the 23rd April 1716, by which the barony of Budack was conferred on Gio Pio De Piro. At a later period, Grand Master Fr. D. Antonio Manoel de Vilhena, who governed the Principality from A.D. 1722 to A.D. 1736, issued four other patents creating four barons, but two of these titles are now extinguished. His Successor Fr. D. Raimondo Despuig conferred two other titles of baron, on the 2nd June 1737 and on the 18th August of the same year. Grand Master Fr. D. Emmanuel Pinto de Foncecca created two titles of count, on the 16th May 1743 and on the 20th January 1745, and lastly, Grand Master Fr. Don Emmanuel de Rohan signed eleven diplomas, from 1775 to 1796, conferring upon several noblemen the titles of baron, count and marquis respectively.'

The above extract shows that the sovereign right to create titles was held where sovereign power was held by a prince as the feudal tenant of a sovereign superior; in this case, the Emperor as King of Sicily. It also shows that such sovereign princes could, inter allia, grant the titles of Baron, Count and Marquis. These titles were recognized by the British Goverment and therefore provide a legal precedent with respect to titles granted by other sovereign princes within the jurisidiction of the British crown, since the titles were recognized by Crown on the advice of the Committee of Privileges of the House of Lords (which is the same process of recognition used for British peerages). What makes a tenant a sovereign prince is the exercise of the royal power, and Lords of Regality in Scotland exercised ALL the powers of the Crown except the right to try cases of treason. Thus, Lords of Regality are sovereign princes, according to this precedent, and as such can create titles, including the titles of Baron, Count (Earl) and Marquis.