Madrigal heraldo de armas

[p***@gmail.com]

Recently I got a copy of this book:
http://www.editions-lacour.com/herauts.rois.d.armes.et.poursuivants.de.la.couronne.d.espagne-14-8049.php

I found that the author styles himself "Madrigal héraut d'armes de Castille et Léon."
I first thought this is a kind of self-styled title (like, for example, this: http://real-aragon.org/wp/raca/ ).
However, Don Alfonso, Marquis de La Floresta seems to recognize this title.
The author's nomination to the office is recorded in "Archivo del Cronista de Armas de la Junta de Castilla y Léon." (p.132)
The author says in the same page Madrigal is "héraut d'armes privé," so my guess is this office is Marquis de La Floresta's private herald.

Am I correct?

[m***@gmail.com]

Post by p***@gmail.com
http://www.editions-lacour.com/herauts.rois.d.armes.et.poursuivants.de.la.couronne.d.espagne-14-8049.php
I found that the author styles himself "Madrigal héraut d'armes de Castille et Léon."
I first thought this is a kind of self-styled title (like, for example, this: http://real-aragon.org/wp/raca/ ).
However, Don Alfonso, Marquis de La Floresta seems to recognize this title.
The author's nomination to the office is recorded in "Archivo del Cronista de Armas de la Junta de Castilla y Léon." (p.132)
The author says in the same page Madrigal is "héraut d'armes privé," so my guess is this office is Marquis de La Floresta's private herald.
Am I correct?
http://www.editions-lacour.com/herauts.rois.d.armes.et.poursuivants.de.la.couronne.d.espagne-14-8049.php
I found that the author styles himself "Madrigal héraut d'armes de Castille et Léon."
I first thought this is a kind of self-styled title (like, for example, this: http://real-aragon.org/wp/raca/ ).
However, Don Alfonso, Marquis de La Floresta seems to recognize this title.
The author's nomination to the office is recorded in "Archivo del Cronista de Armas de la Junta de Castilla y Léon." (p.132)
The author says in the same page Madrigal is "héraut d'armes privé," so my guess is this office is Marquis de La Floresta's private herald.
Am I correct?

Dear Sir,
Thank you very sincerely for the interest which you showed for my book on the officers of coat of arms of the Crown of Spain. I hope that my study brought you some satisfaction for the best knowledge on the subject.
To answer the questioning that you rest it is necessary to me to specify to you that the title of Madrigal herald of arms is perfectly official in Castile and Leon and that this name and title is also used for the office of arms deprived of the family of the marquesses of La Floresta. Thus there are two well different offices: an official and an other deprived with the same name and title by the same person. I dare to hope to have known how to enlighten you on this peculiarity and very sympathetically to you. Pierre Daniel de Losada y Marti, Madrigal Herald of Arms.

[p***@gmail.com]

Post by m***@gmail.com
Dear Sir,
Thank you very sincerely for the interest which you showed for my book on the officers of coat of arms of the Crown of Spain. I hope that my study brought you some satisfaction for the best knowledge on the subject.

Thank you for your kind reply. I have a copy of _Heraldos y Reyes de Armas en la Corte de Espagna_;
I do not understand Spanish and so almost all part of the book is left unread.
I just read small part of your book, and presently I am both satisfied and disappointed to know
that virtually nothing has happened since the lamented death of Don Vicente de Cadenas y Vicent
(except your appointment).

Post by m***@gmail.com
To answer the questioning that you rest it is necessary to me to specify to you that the title of Madrigal herald of arms is perfectly official in Castile and Leon

What I do not understand is what do you mean by "official". Is there any statutory basis such as
a decreto or an act of parliament for the creation of your office and/or your appointment?
As far as I know, other Spanish heraldic officers, that is Cronista de Armas de Castilla y León [1],
assessor d'Heràldica i Genealogia de Catalunya [2], Asesor de Heráldica de la Comunidad de Madrid [3]
are created and appointed on such basis.
I could not find any document neither on http://www.boe.es/ nor http://bocyl.jcyl.es/
relating to your office.
(However, as I stated above, I do not understand Spanish, I might have just missed to find it.)

*1 http://bocyl.jcyl.es/boletines/1991/05/16/pdf/BOCYL-B-16051991.pdf
*2 http://dogc.gencat.cat/ca/pdogc_canals_interns/pdogc_resultats_fitxa/?action=fitxa&documentId=66996
*3 http://www.bocm.es/boletin/CM_Boletin_BOCM/19870429_B/10000.pdf (DECRETO 30/1987. See Art. 4.)

Post by m***@gmail.com
Thus there are two well different offices: an official and an other deprived with the same name and title by the same person.

What you stated here is, for me, quite confusing. Could you please repeat what you meant _in French_?
(to avoid any misunderstanding.)
Though I do not think I do understand French so well, learned gentlmen here would help us.

Thank you again for your reply.

Satoru Uemura

[h***@gmail.com]

Post by p***@gmail.com
http://www.editions-lacour.com/herauts.rois.d.armes.et.poursuivants.de.la.couronne.d.espagne-14-8049.php
I found that the author styles himself "Madrigal héraut d'armes de Castille et Léon."
I first thought this is a kind of self-styled title (like, for example, this: http://real-aragon.org/wp/raca/ ).
However, Don Alfonso, Marquis de La Floresta seems to recognize this title.
The author's nomination to the office is recorded in "Archivo del Cronista de Armas de la Junta de Castilla y Léon." (p.132)
The author says in the same page Madrigal is "héraut d'armes privé," so my guess is this office is Marquis de La Floresta's private herald.
Am I correct?

Dear Sir,
Thank you very sincerely for the interest which you showed for my book on the officers of coat of arms of the Crown of Spain. I hope that my study brought you some satisfaction for the best knowledge on the subject.
To answer the questioning that you rest it is necessary to me to specify to you that the title of Madrigal herald of arms is perfectly official in Castile and Leon and that this name and title is also used for the office of arms deprived of the family of the marquesses of La Floresta. Thus there are two well different offices: an official and an other deprived with the same name and title by the same person. I dare to hope to have known how to enlighten you on this peculiarity and very sympathetically to you. Pierre Daniel de Losada y Marti, Madrigal Herald of Arms.

[h***@gmail.com]

Post by p***@gmail.com
http://www.editions-lacour.com/herauts.rois.d.armes.et.poursuivants.de.la.couronne.d.espagne-14-8049.php
I found that the author styles himself "Madrigal héraut d'armes de Castille et Léon."
I first thought this is a kind of self-styled title (like, for example, this: http://real-aragon.org/wp/raca/ ).
However, Don Alfonso, Marquis de La Floresta seems to recognize this title.
The author's nomination to the office is recorded in "Archivo del Cronista de Armas de la Junta de Castilla y Léon." (p.132)
The author says in the same page Madrigal is "héraut d'armes privé," so my guess is this office is Marquis de La Floresta's private herald.
Am I correct?

Cher Monsieur,

Comme vous m'y invitez si aimablement, je tente de vous apporter en français plus de précisions sur les questions que vous posez.
Le titre de Madrigal Héraut d'Armes Honoraire de Castille et Leon est parfaitement valable et officiel. Celui-ci m'a été décerné à titre personnel et à vie sous l'autorité du Cronista de Armas de Castille et Leon en vertu de ces capacités et fonctions qui relèvent du décret de sa nommination 111/1991 du 15 mai 1991 et en vertu des décrets Royaux 2469/1982; 3036/1982 et 3019/1983 et ceux concernant les Cronistas de Armas Décrets Royal du 29 juillet 1915, Décret du Royaume du 13 avril 1951, le Réglement del Cuerpo de los Cronistas Reyes de Armas de 1915-1928, qui prévoient la nommination ponctuelle d'officiers d'armoiries honoraires. La plupart des textes précités sont reproduits dans mon livre. J'attire votre attention sur un autre officier nommé dans les mêmes conditions à la page 143, le Poursuivant d'Armes Soria, nommé le 6 janvier 2004. Ces titres sont limités dans l'honorariat, ce statut particulier limite les fonctions à celui d'assesseur et ne permet pas de signer des Certifications originales, tout au plus de les traduire ou bien accessoirement de les instruire auprès de la seule autorité officielle compétente en cette matière à ce jour, qui est le Cronista de Armas de Castille et Leon, depuis le décès du regetté Roi d'Armes don Vicente de Cadenas y Vicent. Ma propre nomination fut initiée par la requête officielle d'une autorité régionale française, auprès de La Junta de Castilla y Leon, et qui a été exprimée afin que je subisse la formation et les épreuves nécessaires pouvant attester de mes propres connaissances en matières héraldiques, vexillologiques, généalogiques et nobiliaires, nécessaires à la conservation du patrimoine culturel. De fait, ce titre et le nom qui lui est attaché sont parfaitement légaux en Espagne et aussi en France.Il s'agit d'une distinction honorifique, rare il est vrai, mais bien réelle et active.
Pour ce qui est du titre de héraut privé, celui-ci ne concerne que les intérêts de la famille qui en fait usage et la déontologie m'interdit de développer ici ce qui est de l'ordre privatif des familles. J'espère que ces précisions seront utiles et reste bien sympathiquement à vous.
Pierre Daniel de Losada y Marti, Madrigal Heraldo de Armas.

[p***@gmail.com]

Excuse me for writing in English. If you kindly answer my question again, please write in French.

Post by h***@gmail.com
Le titre de Madrigal Héraut d'Armes Honoraire de Castille et Leon est parfaitement valable et officiel.

Thank you for pointing out the relevant statutes.
My understanding of what you stated is that Don Alfonso made appointments by virtue of existing
decrees and regulations, and those acts by him are probably of "private" nature and thus did not
appear on governmental gazettes. (Just my understanding.)

Post by h***@gmail.com
J'attire votre attention sur un autre officier nommé dans les mêmes conditions à la page 143, le Poursuivant d'Armes Soria, nommé le 6 janvier 2004.

Yes, I found it, exacatly on p.143. (I did not have the idea that there is any new appintment!)
Could you please give me his name?

Post by h***@gmail.com
Ma propre nomination fut initiée par la requête officielle d'une autorité régionale française, auprès de La Junta de Castilla y Leon

Which authority? Could you please give me the exact name?

I hope that the exact circumstance of your appointment (and that of Soria Pursuivant) will
be told in any book or journal. It should be widely known to the world.

Satoru Uemura

[p***@gmail.com]

Post by p***@gmail.com
My understanding of what you stated is that Don Alfonso made appointments by virtue of existing
decrees and regulations, and those acts by him are probably of "private" nature and thus did not
appear on governmental gazettes. (Just my understanding.)

Having said that, I am now regretting my words.
I cannot say whether the acts are just of private nature or more than private
by what I know now.
And it is probably true that these appointments were not gazetted, but it does
not necessarily mean that they are private ones.

I will watch for anything new on this matter be available.

Satoru Uemura