"The Lord Marcher" Sean Thomas Arthur Rafferty 20th Baron of Balllyane = CROOK

Post by Wes
Looks like they've grown another apple on the lunatic tree.
What do we know about this guy? He seems to just be a regurgitation of
Robert Smith’s Manorial Society.
www.lordmarcher.com

Your link seems to be broken. Try these:

http://lordmarcher.com/page10.html

http://lordmarcher.com/page2.html

http://www.qype.co.uk/place/772157-Lordship-Manor-of-Worlton-Dyffryn-St-Nicholas--Cardiff

The guy's obviously off his trolley...

RL

k***@hotmail.com

2013-09-13 23:28:39 UTC

Post by Wes
Looks like they've grown another apple on the lunatic tree.
What do we know about this guy? He seems to just be a regurgitation of
Robert Smith’s Manorial Society.
www.lordmarcher.com

http://lordmarcher.com/page10.html
http://lordmarcher.com/page2.html
http://www.qype.co.uk/place/772157-Lordship-Manor-of-Worlton-Dyffryn-St-Nicholas--Cardiff
The guy's obviously off his trolley...
RL

I think this guys name is actually Lance Moran of pathwise not a leaf of a shamrock anywhere and bringing the Irish into disrepute as well as the Welsh and English! Head and Dick comes to mind but not necessarily in that order.

f***@aol.com

2014-09-12 19:03:44 UTC

Please may I suggest that all interested parties to this lengthy discussion spend a little time carefully reading and digesting the attachment I have placed below.
With best wishes,

Nick Rutherford Sowerby Johnson
Warden for South East England
The Freemen of England & Wales Association

September 12th 2014

http://www.faketitles.com/Manorial-SD1.pdf

r***@gmail.com

2016-07-30 19:23:28 UTC

Update! The original website in question has long since disappeared. Good!

Mr. Rafferty has not crawled back under his rock, however. Bad!

He is now Chairman of "The Manorial Guild" found at...

http://www.manorialguild.com

His name in print...
http://www.manorialguild.com/page8.html

Notice he has suspended use of Ballyanne. Seems he is now "Lord of Brecon" instead. He changes "styles" like I change socks!

What do you think of the arms on the homepage? I wonder if those were granted by The College or simply conjured into being.

e $$iri k_i

2016-08-13 14:15:13 UTC

Post by r***@gmail.com
Update!
Notice he has suspended use of Ballyanne. Seems he is now "Lord of Brecon" instead. He changes "styles" like I change socks!

I know it's no connection, but Ballyanne reminded me of Ballywoodane. We had a poster who freely admitted he had purchased the barony of Ballywoodane and would always post his comments with his name and title. Even continued using his title after the MacCarthy MORE admitted to making up the whole thing, until Velde called him on it and shamed him into knocking it off....

Post by r***@gmail.com
What do you think of the arms on the homepage? I wonder if those were granted by The College or simply conjured into being.

The college was easily impressed by the common seal and high falutin language. Add the impressive arms with a crest that imitates the Lord Lyon, and a pennon(?) that is Scotland with Or instead of Argent; Downright made them tremble to behold such an august personage. Verily, I tell thee, they tripped over each other to do whatever favors they could, hoping they might be rewarded someday as First Groupie or even, even maybe, a real baronage!!

</end sarcasm>

r***@gmail.com

2016-08-14 12:33:01 UTC

This gets better and better. Take a look at another Rafferty/Moran website:

http://lordofthemanor.biz

Interestingly enough, it appears this man of many faces has trademarked (or is attempting to) the term "Lord of the Manor" for the purpose of marketing...well, literally everything you can slap a label on, apparently.

His MANY product offerings:
http://lordofthemanor.biz/page4.html

Further, he's also trademarked the term "Earl of Mercia" for similar purposes. First he was a Lord Marcher. Then he became an Irish baron. Later he metamorphisized into an English lord of the manor. Is he now dreaming of being an Earl as well?

Lastly, I would be remiss if I didn't point out the rainbow coalition of fleur-de-lis so heavily used throughout. Perhaps a bit of foreshadowing? Could our dear "Lord/Baron/Earl/Emperor of The Moon" is going to lay claim to some French titles next?

r***@gmail.com

2016-08-14 12:38:20 UTC

This gets better and better. Take a look at another Rafferty/Moran website:

http://lordofthemanor.b

Interestingly enough, it appears this man of many faces has trademarked (or is attempting to) the term "Lord of the Manor" for the purpose of marketing...well, literally everything you can slap a label on, apparently.

His MANY product offerings:
http://lordofthemanor.biz/page4.html

Further, he's also trademarked the term "Earl of Mercia" for similar purposes. First he was a Lord Marcher. Then he became an Irish baron. Later he metamorphisized into an English lord of the manor. Is he now dreaming of being an Earl as well?

Lastly, I would be remiss if I didn't point out the rainbow coalition of fleur-de-lis so heavily used throughout. Perhaps a bit of foreshadowing? Could it be our dear "Lord/Baron/Earl/Emperor of The Moon" is going to lay claim to some French titles next?

r***@gmail.com

2016-08-14 12:39:20 UTC

This gets better and better. Take a look at another Rafferty/Moran website:

http://lordofthemanor.biz

Interestingly enough, it appears this man of many faces has trademarked (or is attempting to) the term "Lord of the Manor" for the purpose of marketing...well, literally everything you can slap a label on, apparently.

His MANY product offerings:
http://lordofthemanor.biz/page4.html

Further, he's also trademarked the term "Earl of Mercia" for similar purposes. First he was a Lord Marcher. Then he became an Irish baron. Later he metamorphisized into an English lord of the manor. Is he now dreaming of being an Earl as well?

Lastly, I would be remiss if I didn't point out the rainbow coalition of fleur-de-lis so heavily used throughout. Perhaps a bit of foreshadowing? Could it be our dear "Lord/Baron/Earl/Emperor of The Moon" is going to lay claim to some French titles next?

e $$iri k_i

2016-08-14 15:08:42 UTC

Post by r***@gmail.com
Further, he's also trademarked the term "Earl of Mercia" for similar purposes.

Ahh,... so that is why he has what looked like a Scottish banner with Or instead of Argent cross. The flag of Mercia..

Post by r***@gmail.com
Could it be our dear "Lord/Baron/Earl/Emperor of The Moon" is going to lay claim to some French titles next?

More likely he is laying the groundwork for his claim to the Mercian throne. Can make up any titles he wants once he is King and Fons Honorum...

The Mor claimed chiefship before progressing to High King of Ireland...

The Chief

2016-08-15 07:18:53 UTC

What has happened to tolerance and acceptance of diversity? Just because Mr Rafferty's membership of the aristocracy is under- or un-documented, is that a reason to persecute him?
Honk if you accept undocumented aristos!

Regards,
The Chief

Sean J Murphy

2011-03-28 23:22:05 UTC

Post by Wes
Looks like they've grown another apple on the lunatic tree.
What do we know about this guy? He seems to just be a regurgitation of
Robert Smith’s Manorial Society.
www.lordmarcher.com

A somewhat eccentric and not overly literate site which seems to be run
by a chap in Wales with an Irish name.

'Sean Thomas Arthur Rafferty, is the the owner of the Feudal Barony of
Ballyanne A Registered Barony comprising of 6,480 Acres, in the Parish
of Ballyanne, Co Wexford and 45,724 Acres in the Barony of Idrone, Co
Carlow, Ireland.'
(http://www.lordmarcher.com/page2.html)

The following recalls the rubber-stamping racket in which the Irish
Chief Herald's Office was formerly involved:

'The estate of the Fuedal Barony and Honour and Seignory and Liberties
of Ballyane and the Lordship of Ballyane was registered in the Registry
of Deeds in (Dublin) on serial no 2008 261172 on the 22 December 2008
Sean Thomas Arthur Rafferty, Lord of Dyffryn, Worlton and St. Nicholas,
Is the 25th Feudal Baron of Ballyane, 25th Feudal Lord of Ballyane,
Acceded: 1 March 2010
. . . . .
Sean Thomas Arthur Rafferty,purchased the Barony of Ballyanne and the
Lordship of Ballyane from the Executive Chairman: Robert Smith OStJ BA
of The Manorial Society of Great Britain 104 Kennington Road, London
SE11 6RE, in March 2010'
(http://wapedia.mobi/en/Baron_of_Ballyane)

Say no more, say no more.

Sean Murphy
Irish 'Feudal Titles'
http://homepage.eircom.net/~seanjmurphy/chiefs/feudaltitles.htm

Wes

2011-03-29 00:51:44 UTC

As he lives in Wales, wouldn't there be a way to prosecute him for
fraud or, at least, report him?

On http://www.lordmarcher.com/page36.html he states:

"The Land Registration Act 2002 states that 'manorial rights' must be
protected by registration if they are to continue to bind the land
after October 2013. The precise scope of the phrase 'manorial rights'
is currently uncertain, as it is not defined in the Land Registration
Act 2002
.
Whilst it certainly includes a lord of the manor's rights in former
copyhold land, it is also likely to have a wider meaning that includes
rights reserved to the lord on the inclosure of wastes and commons.
Either way, those with the benefit of these rights cannot take the
risk of losing them through failure to register."

See? That last bit is the problem. He’s implying registration is still
an option and thereby manorial rights ensured ad infinitum. This is
incorrect. Answers lie within “The Land Registry Practice Guide #22:
Manors”.

http://www.landreg.gov.uk/assets/library/documents/lrpg022.pdf

In section 2.2 it clearly states:

“Since 13 October 2003, it is no longer possible to make application
for the first registration of a lordship title. “

Given all of the lordships for sale are a product of statutory
declaration, obviously, there will be no prior registration. As his
website contains a good deal of discussion on these topics, it’s more
than fair to assume he’s aware of this simple fact and is clearly
attempting to deceive purchasers in order to profit. I’m no great
legal mind but even I can see this is fraud.

Wes

2011-03-29 02:38:33 UTC

C'mon, Sean! Doesn't it just make your blood boil??? Sic 'em!!!

Baron of Ballyanne

2011-04-05 18:17:44 UTC

Post by Wes
As he lives in Wales, wouldn't there be a way to prosecute him for
fraud or, at least, report him?
"The Land Registration Act 2002 states that 'manorial rights' must be
protected by registration if they are to continue to bind the land
after October 2013. The precise scope of the phrase 'manorial rights'
is currently uncertain, as it is not defined in the Land Registration
Act 2002
.
Whilst it certainly includes a lord of the manor's rights in former
copyhold land, it is also likely to have a wider meaning that includes
rights reserved to the lord on the inclosure of wastes and commons.
Either way, those with the benefit of these rights cannot take the
risk of losing them through failure to register."
See? That last bit is the problem. He’s implying registration is still
an option and thereby manorial rights ensured ad infinitum. This is
Manors”.
http://www.landreg.gov.uk/assets/library/documents/lrpg022.pdf
“Since 13 October 2003, it is no longer possible to make application
for the first registration of a lordship title. “
Given all of the lordships for sale are a product of statutory
declaration, obviously, there will be no prior registration. As his
website contains a good deal of discussion on these topics, it’s more
than fair to assume he’s aware of this simple fact and is clearly
attempting to deceive purchasers in order to profit. I’m no great
legal mind but even I can see this is fraud.

Dear Wes

Their is no fraud here just some one being 100% honest
You seem to be getting confussed so i will explain

If some one buys a Landed Lordship of the Manor Title they can
register their manorial rights.
These manorial rights are know as incorpreal heriditaments, these are
right of usage of land.
A landed lordship of the manor title has right to land
And as such these manorial right can be registered with the land
registry
The land registry required the holder of the title lord of the manor
to supply a copy of the boundary of his manor
And a list of all rights held by the lord of the manor

If some one buys a manorial possessioy title they are only buying the
right to the name
The right to use the style and title to the name legally
A manorial possessory title has no right to land

I hope i have made it clear and i suggest wes an appologie is in order

Turenne

2011-04-05 18:34:39 UTC

Dear Wes
Their is no fraud here just some one being 100% honest
You seem to be getting confussed so i will explain
If some one buys a Landed Lordship of the Manor Title they can
register their manorial rights.
These manorial rights are know as incorpreal heriditaments, these are
right of usage of land.
A landed lordship of the manor title has right to land
And as such these manorial right can be registered with the land
registry
The land registry required the holder of the title lord of the manor
to supply a copy of the boundary of his manor
And a list of all rights held by the lord of the manor
If some one buys a manorial possessioy title they are only buying the
right to the name
The right to use the style and title to the name legally
A manorial possessory title has no right to land
I hope i have made it clear and i suggest wes an appologie is in order

You've picked the wrong group if you think we need a lecture on
Incorporeal Hereditaments.

Is your spell check working?

RL

Baron of Ballyanne

2011-04-05 19:29:39 UTC

Dear Wes
Their is no fraud here just some one being 100% honest
You seem to be getting confussed so i will explain
If some one buys a Landed Lordship of the Manor Title they can
register their manorial rights.
These manorial rights are know as incorpreal heriditaments, these are
right of usage of land.
A landed lordship of the manor title has right to land
And as such these manorial right can be registered with the land
registry
The land registry required the holder of the title lord of the manor
to supply a copy of the boundary of his manor
And a list of all rights held by the lord of the manor
If some one buys a manorial possessioy title they are only buying the
right to the name
The right to use the style and title to the name legally
A manorial possessory title has no right to land
I hope i have made it clear and i suggest wes an appologie is in order

You've picked the wrong group if you think we need a lecture on
Incorporeal Hereditaments.
Is your spell check working?
RL- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Hello Turenne

I understand that most of the people in this group are very learned
and vastly educated
all i am trying to do put the record straight
if any body wishes to ask me any questions or wishes to send me an
email i will respond with full information
i do not have nothing to hide

Turenne

2011-04-05 21:26:17 UTC

Are you flogging non existent titles because your other companies are
er...in difficulties? There are better ways of making a living than
cheating people.

RL

s***@beechwoodhire.co.uk

2011-04-06 08:47:19 UTC

Are you flogging non existent titles because your other companies are
er...in difficulties? There are better ways of making a living than
cheating people.
RL

Dear Turenne
I have registered several welsh titles
If some has a wish to own a manorial possessory title
I am honest and inform them they are buying the legal
right to use the style name of the title.
They are not buying a landed manorial title
as you can see i give my full address and contact tel no
and my email address i have nothing to hide as all my dealing
are legal & honest i do not hide behind a name like some
as my business are concerned they are a mather of public record
and i am riding a crest of a wave and breaking in to new ground
i have just purchased a local estate agent company inorder to sell my
own property
yes i do not mind telling you this because i have nothing to hide
but what i dislike is people who are rude and who make statement
which are not based on facts

your learned friend

Sean Thomas Arthur Rafferty, Baron of Ballyanne,
Lord of Dyffryn, Worlton, St. Nicholas, Lord of Rufford.

Graham Milne

2011-04-05 23:33:18 UTC

Post by Baron of Ballyanne
I understand that most of the people in this group are very learned
and vastly educated
all i am trying to do put the record straight
if any body wishes to ask me any questions or wishes to send me an
email i will respond with full information
i do not have nothing to hide

Vastly educated. That's me.

Graham Milne

2011-03-29 12:30:32 UTC

On Mar 29, 12:22 am, Sean J Murphy <***@SPAMOUTeircom.net>
wrote:

snip

Post by Sean J Murphy
The following recalls the rubber-stamping racket in which the Irish
'The estate of the Fuedal Barony and Honour and Seignory and Liberties
of Ballyane and the Lordship of Ballyane was registered in the Registry
of Deeds in (Dublin) on serial no 2008 261172 on the 22 December 2008
Sean Thomas Arthur Rafferty, Lord of Dyffryn, Worlton and St. Nicholas,
Is the 25th Feudal Baron of Ballyane, 25th Feudal Lord of Ballyane,
Acceded: 1 March 2010
. . . . .
Sean Thomas Arthur Rafferty,purchased the Barony of Ballyanne and the
Lordship of Ballyane from the Executive Chairman: Robert Smith OStJ BA
of The Manorial Society of Great Britain 104 Kennington Road, London
SE11 6RE, in March 2010'
(http://wapedia.mobi/en/Baron_of_Ballyane)
Say no more, say no more.
Sean Murphy
Irish 'Feudal Titles'http://homepage.eircom.net/~seanjmurphy/chiefs/feudaltitles.htm

But this is a mere property registration and seems to have nothing to
do with the Chief Herald's Office as far as I can see.

Wes

2011-03-29 12:40:58 UTC

Correct. There are two issues at hand. There are his Irish title(s)
which, admittedly, I know absolutely nothing about. That's Sean's area
of expertise. The second is his website's aggressive attempt to sell a
number of English lordships of the manor while deceiving the investor
about the crucial legislation that will render these titles nearly
worthless on October 13, 2013. This subject I actually know a good
deal about.

He's trying to say these statutory declaration titles can be
registered with HM's gov't where the cannot. He's using this in an
argument to assure the purchaser will have mineral, quarry, right-of-
way and possible ability to claim 'common lands' (to name only a few)
beyond the 2013 cut-off date. Essentially, this is every way the
lordship could be made to be profitable. Without a registration, they
become only a hollow shell and the purchaser truly an emperor with no
clothes. It's a scam and he's put it all down in writing online;
something Robert Smith has doggedly avoided over the years. Open and
shut case.

Baron of Ballyanne

2011-04-05 18:30:10 UTC

Post by Wes
Correct. There are two issues at hand. There are his Irish title(s)
which, admittedly, I know absolutely nothing about. That's Sean's area
of expertise. The second is his website's aggressive attempt to sell a
number of English lordships of the manor while deceiving the investor
about the crucial legislation that will render these titles nearly
worthless on October 13, 2013. This subject I actually know a good
deal about.
He's trying to say these statutory declaration titles can be
registered with HM's gov't where the cannot. He's using this in an
argument to assure the purchaser will have mineral, quarry, right-of-
way and possible ability to claim 'common lands' (to name only a few)
beyond the 2013 cut-off date. Essentially, this is every way the
lordship could be made to be profitable. Without a registration, they
become only a hollow shell and the purchaser truly an emperor with no
clothes. It's a scam and he's put it all down in writing online;
something Robert Smith has doggedly avoided over the years. Open and
shut case.

Wrong again Wes

Manorial Possessory Titles are a Legal right to use a Style and Title
and the Right to the Name only

I believe you are getting confussed again wes
With Landed Manorial Titles, Lord of the Manor Title.

I am disappointed because you state - This subject I actually know a
good deal about.
Am i right Wes or is another apologise required

B G. Hamilton.

2011-04-07 08:52:51 UTC

Wrong again Wes
Manorial Possessory Titles are a Legal right to use a Style and Title
and the Right to the Name only
I believe you are getting confussed again wes
With Landed Manorial Titles, Lord of the Manor Title.
I am disappointed because you state - This subject I actually know a
good deal about.
Am i right Wes or is another apologise required- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

I know a little about possessory titles in the Scottish context; we
call them a non domino dispositions and they give an unchallengable
title after 12 years on the register and concurrent possession for
that period. Possession has to be proved. I know that it is not
necessay in English law to record ownership of a property to acquire
squatters rights but you still have to show possession. The question
is "How do you possess a manorial name to the exclusion of all
others?"

BGH

B G. Hamilton.

2011-04-07 19:09:34 UTC

Wrong again Wes
Manorial Possessory Titles are a Legal right to use a Style and Title
and the Right to the Name only
I believe you are getting confussed again wes
With Landed Manorial Titles, Lord of the Manor Title.
I am disappointed because you state - This subject I actually know a
good deal about.
Am i right Wes or is another apologise required- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

That should have been ten years; it is twelve years in England.

BGH

Graham Milne

2011-04-07 23:22:31 UTC

Wrong again Wes
Manorial Possessory Titles are a Legal right to use a Style and Title
and the Right to the Name only
I believe you are getting confussed again wes
With Landed Manorial Titles, Lord of the Manor Title.
I am disappointed because you state - This subject I actually know a
good deal about.
Am i right Wes or is another apologise required- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

That should have been ten years; it is twelve years in England.
BGH

Surely, this all went out with the 2000 Act?

B G. Hamilton.

2011-04-08 08:29:16 UTC

Wrong again Wes
Manorial Possessory Titles are a Legal right to use a Style and Title
and the Right to the Name only
I believe you are getting confussed again wes
With Landed Manorial Titles, Lord of the Manor Title.
I am disappointed because you state - This subject I actually know a
good deal about.
Am i right Wes or is another apologise required- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

That should have been ten years; it is twelve years in England.
BGH

Surely, this all went out with the 2000 Act?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

No, why would it. The ability to acquire someone else's property by
prescription has been enshrined in Scottish law in its modern form
since 1617 although that was not the purpose of the Act. You
remember, of course, that a feudal dignity was tied to real land and
was therefore property and that the 2000 Act re-catorgorised feudal
dignities as incorporeal property. However, the 1979 Prescription Act
said that the positive prescription only applied to 'interests in
land'. The 2000 Act said that feudal dignities are no longer an
interest in land; therefore prescription no longer applies to feudal
dignities. Any feudal dignity that was subject to an a non domino
disposition recorded post 28th November 1994 and awaiting the ten
years to pass to be unchallengable will never acress into an
unchallengable title.

BGH

Graham Milne

2011-04-08 14:24:52 UTC

Wrong again Wes
Manorial Possessory Titles are a Legal right to use a Style and Title
and the Right to the Name only
I believe you are getting confussed again wes
With Landed Manorial Titles, Lord of the Manor Title.
I am disappointed because you state - This subject I actually know a
good deal about.
Am i right Wes or is another apologise required- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

That should have been ten years; it is twelve years in England.
BGH

Surely, this all went out with the 2000 Act?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

That's what I meant. A feudal barony can no longer be acquired by
prescription. Isn't that what you are saying?

B G. Hamilton.

2011-04-08 15:50:38 UTC

Wrong again Wes
Manorial Possessory Titles are a Legal right to use a Style and Title
and the Right to the Name only
I believe you are getting confussed again wes
With Landed Manorial Titles, Lord of the Manor Title.
I am disappointed because you state - This subject I actually know a
good deal about.
Am i right Wes or is another apologise required- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

That should have been ten years; it is twelve years in England.
BGH

Surely, this all went out with the 2000 Act?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

That's what I meant. A feudal barony can no longer be acquired by
prescription. Isn't that what you are saying?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Yes, I thought you were thinking that the ability to obtain property
by prescription had been abolished. Of course, I should have known
that you would never get anything wrong or be mis-informed.

BGH

Baron of Ballyanne

2011-04-15 08:29:02 UTC

Edward Stewart

Newsgroups: rec.heraldry

Post by Baron of Ballyanne
The Lord Marcher Title is a Titular Title
For the record the Lord Marcher is only a Style Titled Name
It does not carry any rights to any land
I only have a registered right to use the Name as Style and Title of
the Name which i use for my web site
A bit like the earl of glamorgan Titular Title.

Since "styled titled names" are a recent invention of the shady title
broker world (and can not of course be compared with courtesy titles
acknowledged by the Crown) the "title of Lord Marcher can be nothing
more than a pseudonym. It is a self invented style for self
aggrandisement; it may fool some but not all.

Edward

Good morning Edward Stewart

I believe your missing the point The name Lord Marcher is the name of
my website
and in order to stop people using the name lord marcher i have
registered the name
in several ways and in order for me to legally claim the name and the
right to use it
I must use it as a Titular Title on my website.

Edward Stewart

2011-04-15 12:48:42 UTC

Post by Baron of Ballyanne
Edward Stewart
Newsgroups: rec.heraldry

Since "styled titled names" are a recent invention of the shady title
broker world (and can not of course be compared with courtesy titles
acknowledged by the Crown) the "title of Lord Marcher can be nothing
more than a pseudonym. It is a self invented style for self
aggrandisement; it may fool some but not all.
Edward
Good morning Edward Stewart
I believe your missing the point The name Lord Marcher is the name of
my website
and in order to stop people using the name lord marcher i have
registered the name
in several ways and in order for me to legally claim the name and the
right to use it
I must use it as a Titular Title on my website.

My Dear Mr. Rafferty,

Good afternoon to you sir.

I am not missing the point, nor do I think that I need revise my
opinion.

You refer to yourself, on your website, as "Sean Thomas Arthur
Rafferty, Baron of Ballyanne, Lord Marcher, Lord Of Glamorgan" (as in
the announcement that "The Lord Marcher Website is a business run by
Sean Thomas Arthur Rafferty, Baron of Ballyanne, Lord Marcher, Lord Of
Glamorgan"). Therefore it can only be concluded that you call yourself
and wish to be known as Sean Thomas Arthur Rafferty, Baron of
Ballyanne, Lord Marcher, Lord Of Glamorgan. There can be no doubt that
by making such a statement in public it is your desire that those who
view your website fall under the impression that you personally are
"Sean Thomas Arthur Rafferty, Baron of Ballyanne, Lord Marcher, Lord
Of Glamorgan".

You are of course perfectly entitled to call yourself Sean Thomas
Arthur Rafferty, Baron of Ballyanne, Lord Marcher, Lord Of Glamorgan
but let us not forget that these so called titles are nothing more
than "Style Titled Names" ... which is a term invented by dubious
title sellers to cloud the difference between their own product and
others offered on the market. I on the other hand do not have to
accept that you are anything other than the soi disant Baron of
Ballyanne, Lord Marcher, Lord Of Glamorgan. We are, fortunately, all
free to hold our own opinions.

Yours, without any respect (simply because I do not recognise your
Style Titled Name as being genuinely held).

Edward

Baron of Ballyanne

2011-04-15 19:00:59 UTC

Post by Baron of Ballyanne
Edward Stewart
Newsgroups: rec.heraldry

Since "styled titled names" are a recent invention of the shady title
broker world (and can not of course be compared with courtesy titles
acknowledged by the Crown) the "title of Lord Marcher can be nothing
more than a pseudonym. It is a self invented style for self
aggrandisement; it may fool some but not all.
Edward
Good morning Edward Stewart
I believe your missing the point The name Lord Marcher is the name of
my website
and in order to stop people using the name lord marcher i have
registered the name
in several ways and in order for me to legally claim the name and the
right to use it
I must use it as a Titular Title on my website.

My Dear Mr. Rafferty,
Good afternoon to you sir.
I am not missing the point, nor do I think that I need revise my
opinion.
You refer to yourself, on your website, as "Sean Thomas Arthur
Rafferty, Baron of Ballyanne, Lord Marcher, Lord Of Glamorgan" (as in
the announcement that "The Lord Marcher Website is a business run by
Sean Thomas Arthur Rafferty, Baron of Ballyanne, Lord Marcher, Lord Of
Glamorgan"). Therefore it can only be concluded that you call yourself
and wish to be known as Sean Thomas Arthur Rafferty, Baron of
Ballyanne, Lord Marcher, Lord Of Glamorgan. There can be no doubt that
by making such a statement in public it is your desire that those who
view your website fall under the impression that you personally are
"Sean Thomas Arthur Rafferty, Baron of Ballyanne, Lord Marcher, Lord
Of Glamorgan".
You are of course perfectly entitled to call yourself Sean Thomas
Arthur Rafferty, Baron of Ballyanne, Lord Marcher, Lord Of Glamorgan
but let us not forget that these so called titles are nothing more
than "Style Titled Names" ... which is a term invented by dubious
title sellers to cloud the difference between their own product and
others offered on the market. I on the other hand do not have to
accept that you are anything other than the soi disant Baron of
Ballyanne, Lord Marcher, Lord Of Glamorgan. We are, fortunately, all
free to hold our own opinions.
Yours, without any respect (simply because I do not recognise your
Style Titled Name as being genuinely held).
Edward- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

My Dear Mr. Edward Stewart,

Good afternoon to you Sir.

The Title Baron of Ballyanne is not a Style Title Name
This is a Registered Barony with the Land Office in Dublin

your learned friend

Sean Thomas Arthur Rafferty, Baron of Ballyanne,
Lord of Dyffryn, Worlton, St. Nicholas.

Edward Stewart

2011-04-15 19:34:44 UTC

Post by Baron of Ballyanne
Edward Stewart
Newsgroups: rec.heraldry

Since "styled titled names" are a recent invention of the shady title
broker world (and can not of course be compared with courtesy titles
acknowledged by the Crown) the "title of Lord Marcher can be nothing
more than a pseudonym. It is a self invented style for self
aggrandisement; it may fool some but not all.
Edward
Good morning Edward Stewart
I believe your missing the point The name Lord Marcher is the name of
my website
and in order to stop people using the name lord marcher i have
registered the name
in several ways and in order for me to legally claim the name and the
right to use it
I must use it as a Titular Title on my website.

My Dear Mr. Rafferty,
Good afternoon to you sir.
I am not missing the point, nor do I think that I need revise my
opinion.
You refer to yourself, on your website, as "Sean Thomas Arthur
Rafferty, Baron of Ballyanne, Lord Marcher, Lord Of Glamorgan" (as in
the announcement that "The Lord Marcher Website is a business run by
Sean Thomas Arthur Rafferty, Baron of Ballyanne, Lord Marcher, Lord Of
Glamorgan"). Therefore it can only be concluded that you call yourself
and wish to be known as Sean Thomas Arthur Rafferty, Baron of
Ballyanne, Lord Marcher, Lord Of Glamorgan. There can be no doubt that
by making such a statement in public it is your desire that those who
view your website fall under the impression that you personally are
"Sean Thomas Arthur Rafferty, Baron of Ballyanne, Lord Marcher, Lord
Of Glamorgan".
You are of course perfectly entitled to call yourself Sean Thomas
Arthur Rafferty, Baron of Ballyanne, Lord Marcher, Lord Of Glamorgan
but let us not forget that these so called titles are nothing more
than "Style Titled Names" ... which is a term invented by dubious
title sellers to cloud the difference between their own product and
others offered on the market. I on the other hand do not have to
accept that you are anything other than the soi disant Baron of
Ballyanne, Lord Marcher, Lord Of Glamorgan. We are, fortunately, all
free to hold our own opinions.
Yours, without any respect (simply because I do not recognise your
Style Titled Name as being genuinely held).
Edward- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

My Dear Mr. Edward Stewart,
Good afternoon to you Sir.
The Title Baron of Ballyanne is not a Style Title Name
This is a Registered Barony with the Land Office in Dublin
your learned friend
Sean Thomas Arthur Rafferty, Baron of Ballyanne,
Lord of Dyffryn, Worlton, St. Nicholas.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

I am aware that there are baronies in Ireland however I am also aware
of their status which is well recorded here on this forum. They are
not owned or administered by barons. I believe that we have now
established that one of your titles is "held" under a mistaken belief
and the remainder are self styled inventions (a status which is not
denied by you).

I am also curious to know by what right or invention you style
yourself "learned". Where I come from such a style, even if due, is
never self professed.

Regards,
Edward

Graham Milne

2011-04-15 20:43:49 UTC

Post by Baron of Ballyanne
Edward Stewart
Newsgroups: rec.heraldry

Since "styled titled names" are a recent invention of the shady title
broker world (and can not of course be compared with courtesy titles
acknowledged by the Crown) the "title of Lord Marcher can be nothing
more than a pseudonym. It is a self invented style for self
aggrandisement; it may fool some but not all.
Edward
Good morning Edward Stewart
I believe your missing the point The name Lord Marcher is the name of
my website
and in order to stop people using the name lord marcher i have
registered the name
in several ways and in order for me to legally claim the name and the
right to use it
I must use it as a Titular Title on my website.

My Dear Mr. Rafferty,
Good afternoon to you sir.
I am not missing the point, nor do I think that I need revise my
opinion.
You refer to yourself, on your website, as "Sean Thomas Arthur
Rafferty, Baron of Ballyanne, Lord Marcher, Lord Of Glamorgan" (as in
the announcement that "The Lord Marcher Website is a business run by
Sean Thomas Arthur Rafferty, Baron of Ballyanne, Lord Marcher, Lord Of
Glamorgan"). Therefore it can only be concluded that you call yourself
and wish to be known as Sean Thomas Arthur Rafferty, Baron of
Ballyanne, Lord Marcher, Lord Of Glamorgan. There can be no doubt that
by making such a statement in public it is your desire that those who
view your website fall under the impression that you personally are
"Sean Thomas Arthur Rafferty, Baron of Ballyanne, Lord Marcher, Lord
Of Glamorgan".
You are of course perfectly entitled to call yourself Sean Thomas
Arthur Rafferty, Baron of Ballyanne, Lord Marcher, Lord Of Glamorgan
but let us not forget that these so called titles are nothing more
than "Style Titled Names" ... which is a term invented by dubious
title sellers to cloud the difference between their own product and
others offered on the market. I on the other hand do not have to
accept that you are anything other than the soi disant Baron of
Ballyanne, Lord Marcher, Lord Of Glamorgan. We are, fortunately, all
free to hold our own opinions.
Yours, without any respect (simply because I do not recognise your
Style Titled Name as being genuinely held).
Edward- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

My Dear Mr. Edward Stewart,
Good afternoon to you Sir.
The Title Baron of Ballyanne is not a Style Title Name
This is a Registered Barony with the Land Office in Dublin
your learned friend
Sean Thomas Arthur Rafferty, Baron of Ballyanne,
Lord of Dyffryn, Worlton, St. Nicholas.

You are a scam artist. End of argument. Go away, get lost and never
come back to this forum.

Baron of Ballyanne

2011-04-19 07:07:59 UTC

Hello & Good morning to you, Sir.

Have i the pleasure of being scolded by Graham Nassau Gordon Milne

The Much Honorable, The Baron of Mordington,

Kind Regards,

Sean Thomas Arthur Rafferty, Baron of Ballyanne
Lord of Dyffryn. Worlton, St Nicholas.

Edward Stewart

2011-04-19 08:00:22 UTC

Post by Baron of Ballyanne
Hello & Good morning to you, Sir.
Have i the pleasure of being scolded by Graham Nassau Gordon Milne
The Much Honorable, The Baron of Mordington,
Kind Regards,
Sean Thomas Arthur Rafferty, Baron of Ballyanne
Lord of Dyffryn. Worlton, St Nicholas.

I believe the term is Much Honoured (although I am sure that
Mordington would state that he is most honourable).

Unlike you, he has Letters Patent from a real King of Arms citing his
"styled title name".

Edward

Baron of Ballyanne

2011-04-19 09:08:48 UTC

I believe the term is Much Honoured (although I am sure that
Mordington would state that he is most honourable).
Unlike you, he has Letters Patent from a real King of Arms citing his
"styled title name".
Edward

Hello & Good morning to you, Sir

Mr Edward Stuart

Apology I believe i have made a mistake

I also believe you are indeed correct Sir,

My address to Graham Senior-Milne should have been

Hello & Good morning to you, Sir.

Have i the pleasure of being scolded by Graham Nassau Gordon Milne

The Much Honoured The Baron of Mordington,

Kind Regards,

Sean Thomas Arthur Rafferty, Baron of Ballyanne
Lord of Dyffryn. Worlton, St Nicholas.

19 April 2011

Graham Milne

2011-04-21 23:18:10 UTC

Actually I am the 'Most Glorious and Utterly Stupendous
Superbness' (according to some ancient letters patent which I seem to
have mislaid).

B G. Hamilton.

2011-04-27 18:05:34 UTC

Post by Graham Milne
Actually I am the 'Most Glorious and Utterly Stupendous
Superbness' (according to some ancient letters patent which I seem to
have mislaid).

Will I see you at the wedding on Friday?

BGH

Graham Milne

2011-04-28 00:36:09 UTC

Post by B G. Hamilton.
Will I see you at the wedding on Friday?
BGH

I am afraid not. Some of us who are really, really close friends of
the royal family have volunteered to make way to allow space for
sundry royal families of the world. Besides, we do not wish to parade
our friendship in public; that would be very common.

Turenne

2011-04-28 09:13:19 UTC

Post by Graham Milne
I am afraid not. Some of us who are really, really close friends of
the royal family have volunteered to make way to allow space for
sundry royal families of the world. Besides, we do not wish to parade
our friendship in public; that would be very common.

So, it's back to the old standby consisting of a family bag of Cheesy
Wotsits, and a crate of Newcastle Brown, in front of the TV....

Richard

Graham Milne

2011-04-28 15:58:05 UTC

So, it's back to the old standby consisting of a family bag of Cheesy
Wotsits, and a crate of Newcastle Brown, in front of the TV....
Richard

Quate.

Wes

2011-05-10 05:24:12 UTC

ANYONE WHO READS THIS SHOULD NOT DO BUSINESS WITH:

Sean Thomas Arthur Rafferty, Baron of Ballyanne
Lord of Dyffryn. Worlton, St Nicholas.

HE IS A CROOK AND A WOULD-BE CRIMINAL. HE WILL STEAL YOUR MONEY AND
DIGNITY

See??? The really great part about rec.heraldry is it's permanance.
Things posted here get reposted, and reposted again, a hundred times
over, in a dozen languages. They never, ever disappear. People
thinking of doing business with you in the future will Google your
name, your title and your business. Then...-slowly smiles-...then,
they'll find us; here to warn them...about you. You're famous!!!

You're also dead wrong about English manorial lordship registrations.
They are no longer possible. I already quoted and referenced HM's Land
Registry in this matter and won't waste my time, or that of these
respected readers, by doing so again.

As Graham so eloquently put it:
"You are a scam artist. End of argument. Go away, get lost and never
come back to this forum."

Baron of Ballyanne

2011-05-19 23:20:32 UTC

WES <***@aol.com>

U MUST BE AN AMERICAN BECAUSE
I SEE FROM THE WAY YOU SPEAK TO ME AND OTHER ON THIS GROUP
YOU HAVE NO MANNERS

No need to be a prick, Brian. I said "if" it were English and that

"might" be a manorial lordship. I claimed no absolute knowledge nor
claim to now.

FOR THE RECORD MY INTENTION WAS TO SELL A FEW DORMANT TITLES
WHICH I CLAIMED IN 1999 LEGALLY WITH MY SOLICITOR
UNDER ADVERSE POSSESSION OF LAW WHICH IS LEGALLY
MY INTENTION WAS TO ADVERTISE THESE TITLE FOR A FEW HUNDRED POUNDS
AND THE MONEY BE DONATED FOR THE RESTORATION OF 3 LOCAL CHURCH'S
IN FACT I WILL NOT BE SELLING THESE TITLES NOW.

I DO NOT CARE ABOUT WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT ME
PEOPLE JUDGE ME BY MY ACTIONS, AND KNOW I AM A HONORABLE MAN
FOR MANY YEARS I HAVE SUPPORTED & SPONSORED MANY GOOD CAUSES

WES I DO NOT HIDE MY NAME ADDDRESS LIKE YOU DO
BECAUSE I HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE FROM

IN FACT WHO ARE U ? DO YOU INFACT HAVE SOMETHING TO HIDE
<***@aol.com> as you have said in the past you own words, i am a
ignorant American

<***@aol.com> is quoted also as saying I am, however, selling a
bridge in New York and some oceanfront
property in Arizona...if you're interested. Nyuck nyuck nyuck!

WHAT A LOAD OF COCK AND BULL I BET HE ALSO SELLING "New York Island"
OR "Manhattan Island"

Sure, I've seen people like you before - but I had to pay an
admission...

ANYWAY GENTLEMEN JUST TO KEEP YOU UPDATED
I HAVE JUST PURCHASED A TITLE WITH 42 ACRES OF COMMON LAND
AND 30 ACRES OF FREEHOLD LAND WHICH IS REGISTERED AT THE LAND REGISTRY

Odysseus

2011-05-20 05:04:49 UTC

In article

Post by Baron of Ballyanne
U MUST BE AN AMERICAN BECAUSE
I SEE FROM THE WAY YOU SPEAK TO ME AND OTHER ON THIS GROUP
YOU HAVE NO MANNERS

JFYI the use of ALL CAPS in postings is generally considered the
equivalent of SHOUTING, making as ill-mannered an impression in Usenet
as the audible kind does IRL. HTH, HAND.

--
Odysseus

Wes

2011-05-21 17:04:07 UTC

You make convenient use (however out of context) of my own words
posted here. However, you fail to address your own and the very reason
I opened this thread.

Your website is entirely dedicated to selling long dormant/extant
manorial lordships while greatly misinforming the buyers about their
legal status. Your website claims that these dormant lordships may be
registered. In fact, it emphasizes this to some extent and strongly
suggests any purchasers do so. The fact is that initial registrations
have not been possible since 2003. The below quote is from “HM’s Land
Rejgistry Practice Guide #22: Manors” which may be found online at:
http://www.landreg.gov.uk/upload/documents/lrpg022.pdf

“2.2 Registration under the LRA 2002
Since 13 October 2003, it is no longer possible to make an application
for the first registration of a lordship title. However, dealings with
existing registered titles are subject to compulsory registration.
This includes the grant of a lease (of any term) out of a registered
lordship title.”

I am, however, curious about your purportedly registered manor. What
is the title number found on the registry extract? If it is as intact
as you claim, and you are as honorable as you suggest, there should be
no trouble in releasing it. As it is a matter of public record, I
would love to examine the record. Or, perhaps, are you just cleverly
trying to mislead us again? Perhaps just the land itself is registered
without mention of the manorial lordship? Further, in order to
register, you must supply The Land Registry with an official "Land
Ordinance Survey". Afterall, any interest in land must have a defined
jurisdiction. May I ask the official registry number for that as well?
It also is a matter of public record and easily attainable from 'The
Registry' for a small fee.

Common land is a tricky thing. Developing it will be difficult due to
the recent application of “The Countryside and Rights of Way Access
Act of 2000”. Essentially, this means that any citizen has the right
to freely walk the countryside, including land traditionally held as
commons of the manor, simply for the sake of doing so. If you were to
build upon or develop these commons in any significant way, it would
infringe upon their traditional right of way. I’m sure your local town
council would be more than interested in any commercial attempts and a
legal battle not far behind. So, great, you sort of own land that you
can’t really do anything with. What a marketable asset! I'm trust you
will be sure to inform any possible buyers about that little jewel.

Bottom line is you're either a crook or irresponsibly ignorant on the
topic at-hand. Your claims online are false and you are misleading
purchasers. Either amend them and work within the rather tight
confines left to you by recent acts of Parliament or go away. You are
doing nothing but ruining your supposedly good name by all of this. In
all sincerity, you probably should abort these plans immediately and
salvage what you can. Remember, these conversations will follow you
online forever..;.

ps. If I am totally wrong about you, and you're simply mistaken and
not an outright crook, try reading "Laws of the Manor" (and the
subsequent additional update volumes) by Christopher Jessel. It would
be a good place to start any serious attempt at legitimate business
dealings.
pps. "Having a bridge to sell" is a sarcastic colloquial expression
you clearly didn't understand.

Wes

2011-05-21 17:25:33 UTC

"I have a bridge to sell in New York"
This is a sarcastic saying regarding scam artists and based in a sad
fact. It was fairly common to scam European immigrants arriving off-
the-boat in New York back in the early 20th century. One common scam
was conducted thusly. A man would approach an immigrant and say, "I
recognize your accent! I'm from the same country as you! America is
great and full of opportunity. I've only been here a few years and
have made a fortune! See that bridge over there?" the scam artist
exclaimed while pointing to one or another huge public bridges. "See,
I own that bridge. I don't need it anymore though. I have several!
Since you're from my country, I'll sell it to you cheap. Just give me
whatever cash or valuables you have brought and I'll sign a deed right
now." The scam ends with this hapless immigrant walking across town to
"his bridge" and fervently demanding the cash derrived from collecting
tolls.

"I have oceanfront property to sell in Arizona"
This is also a common absurdity or sarcastic saying regarding scam
artists. Arizona is a desert state with no coastline.

Wes

2011-05-22 12:54:22 UTC

Correction:

"Law of the Manor" by Christopher Jessel

"Law" not "Laws". Signs of a tired mind. Apologies, gentlemen.

Baron of Ballyanne

2011-05-23 22:57:45 UTC

Post by Wes
You make convenient use (however out of context) of my own words
posted here. However, you fail to address your own and the
very reason I opened this thread.

Dear 'Sir' as to the reason why you have opened this thead.
I am informing you that my Family Solicitor Mr David Price.
and his colledge Mr Mark Stevens Media Lawyer will be
contacting you directly after they have obtained your full
address from Aol.com

Baron of Ballyanne

2011-05-23 23:17:54 UTC

Post by Wes
Your website is entirely dedicated to selling long dormant/extant
manorial lordships while greatly misinforming the buyers about their
legal status. Your website claims that these dormant lordships may be
registered. In fact, it emphasizes this to some extent and strongly
suggests any purchasers do so. The fact is that initial registrations
have not been possible since 2003. The below quote is from “HM’s Land
Rejgistry Practice Guide #22: Manors”

which may be found online at:http://www.landreg.gov.uk/upload/
documents/lrpg022.pdf

Dear 'Sir'

My website is not entirely dedicated to selling dormant manorial
lordships
In my website i am trying to give information about Lordship of the
Manor

also about the title that i was going to sell but now i am not selling

I say it again but this time i will type it slowly for you
My intention was to sell a few dormant Titles which i claimed in 1999
I claimed these titles legally with the assistance of my Solicitor
and my intention was to sell them for a few hundred pounds
To raise money to help local charities and good causes and all cheques
being paid and donated for the restoration of 3 local church's

Post by Wes
you say that My website claims that these dormant lordships may be
registered.

Where to and on what page does it say that if you buy a title from me
You can register it at the land registry

In fact i agree with your statement
Since 13 October 2003, it is no longer possible to make an
application
for the first registration of a Lordship Title.

Baron of Ballyanne

2011-05-23 23:52:34 UTC

Post by Wes
Common land is a tricky thing. Developing it will be difficult due to
the recent application of “The Countryside and Rights of Way Access
Act of 2000”. Essentially, this means that any citizen has the right
to freely walk the countryside, including land traditionally held as
commons of the manor, simply for the sake of doing so. If you were to
build upon or develop these commons in any significant way, it would
infringe upon their traditional right of way. I’m sure your local town
council would be more than interested in any commercial attempts and a
legal battle not far behind. So, great, you sort of own land that you
can’t really do anything with. What a marketable asset! I'm trust you
will be sure to inform any possible buyers about that little jewel.

Dear 'Sir'

You are showing your true colours money money money
is that all you think about in fact not everybody is like you Wes

I have a few weeks ago paid a deposite to purchase a lordship
of the manor with 42 acres of common land and when i go on
my holiday, i have the knowledge and pleasure of fishing in my
own fishing lake / dam or maybe i would like to play cricket on
the cricket pitch which i will own or maybe i play bowls on the
green what ever i would like to do i will have the pleasue of
knowing that i own the land and that every body can enjoy it
and i have the pleasure of seeing the smile's on the children
face as they play at the fishing lake and watching the smiles
and faces of enjoyment and pleasure of people playing cricket
on the cricket pitch or bowls on the green

On May 21, 6:04 pm, Wes <***@aol.com> wrote:
So, great, you sort of own land that you

Post by Wes
can’t really do anything with. What a marketable asset! I'm trust you
will be sure to inform any possible buyers about that little jewel.

I'll will not be thinking about you Wes when i stroll down through
my woods on my way to fishing at my own fishing lake and when
i am enjoying the comrademanship of the local fishermen when
we talk about the one that got away.

I have purchased many manorial titles with rights and land
over the last 13 years and my interests are always about
conservation of wildlife and the enjoyment of the countryside
and being a honourable custodian for future generations.

In fact Wes you so wrong i will be buying a fantastic asset
because i own the adjacent manor to this one and i can safe
guard the commons and waste lands and the freehold lands
which i own for the enjoyment of the local community

I HAVE JUST PURCHASED A TITLE WITH 42 ACRES OF COMMON LAND
AND 30 ACRES OF FREEHOLD LAND WHICH IS REGISTERED AT THE LAND
REGISTRY

Baron of Ballyanne

2011-05-23 23:54:52 UTC

Post by Odysseus
In article

Post by Baron of Ballyanne
U MUST BE AN AMERICAN BECAUSE
I SEE FROM THE WAY YOU SPEAK TO ME AND OTHER ON THIS GROUP
YOU HAVE NO MANNERS

JFYI the use of ALL CAPS in postings is generally considered the
equivalent of SHOUTING, making as ill-mannered an impression in Usenet
as the audible kind does IRL. HTH, HAND.
--
Odysseus

Dear Odysseus

My appology but the user Wes has another agender on his mind

Wes

2011-05-25 02:01:58 UTC

I'm sorry. Did you say something?

Wes

2011-05-25 02:04:50 UTC

I repeat my request.

What is the title number on your Land Registry Extract? I would like
to examine it.

Feel free to put it all in capital letters, if it makes you feel
better.

Wes

2011-05-25 02:28:32 UTC

http://www.lordmarcher.com/page36.html

Towards the bottom, under the category of "overriding interests", you
state:

"Whilst it certainly includes a lord of the manor's rights in former
copyhold land, it is also likely to have a wider meaning that includes
rights reserved to the lord on the inclosure of wastes and commons.
Either way, those with the benefit of these rights cannot take the
risk of losing them through failure to register."

No doubt you'll go change that bit now. Go ahead. We're waiting.

As to your point that you meant only to sell a handful of titles to
sell a church; bullshit. Under the heading, "Buy A Title" you have
287 lordships listed...in Wales alone!!!

You are either a total idiot, drunk on your own false sense of self,
or a would-be crook with none of the near-reptillian prudence of
Robert Smith. Did you ever hear the story about how he got his start
hawking lordships to retirees on 3rd rate cruise-liners? Oh the things
I know...

Wes

2011-05-25 02:29:45 UTC

Towards the bottom, under the category of "overriding interests", you
state:

"Whilst it certainly includes a lord of the manor's rights in former
copyhold land, it is also likely to have a wider meaning that
includes
rights reserved to the lord on the inclosure of wastes and commons.
Either way, those with the benefit of these rights cannot take the
risk of losing them through failure to register."

No doubt you'll go change that bit now. Go ahead. We're waiting.

As to your point that you meant only to sell a handful of titles to
help a church; bullshit. Under the heading, "Buy A Title" you have
287 lordships listed...in Wales alone!!!

You are either a total idiot, drunk on your own false sense of self,
or a would-be crook with none of the near-reptillian prudence of
Robert Smith. Did you ever hear the story about how he got his start
hawking lordships to retirees on 3rd rate cruise-liners? Oh the
things
I know...

Wes

2011-05-25 02:31:21 UTC

Sure! You can find your quote on:

http://www.lordmarcher.com/page36.html

Towards the bottom, under the category of "overriding interests", you
state:

"Whilst it certainly includes a lord of the manor's rights in former
copyhold land, it is also likely to have a wider meaning that
includes rights reserved to the lord on the inclosure of wastes and
commons. Either way, those with the benefit of these rights
cannot take the risk of losing them through failure to register."

No doubt you'll go change that bit now. Go ahead. We're waiting.

As to your point that you meant only to sell a handful of titles to
help a church; bullshit. Under the heading, "Buy A Title" you have
287 lordships listed...in Wales alone!!!

You are either a total idiot, drunk on your own false sense of self,
or a would-be crook with none of the near-reptillian prudence of
Robert Smith. Did you ever hear the story about how he got his start
hawking lordships to retirees on 3rd rate cruise-liners? Oh the
things I know...

Wes

2011-05-25 02:34:05 UTC

God. This isn't even fun anymore. Like kicking a puppy.

Baron of Ballyanne

2011-05-25 19:34:13 UTC

Post by Wes
http://www.lordmarcher.com/page36.html
Towards the bottom, under the category of "overriding interests", you
"Whilst it certainly includes a lord of the manor's rights in former
copyhold land, it is also likely to have a wider meaning that
includes rights reserved to the lord on the inclosure of wastes and
commons. Either way, those with the benefit of these rights
cannot take the risk of losing them through failure to register."

Post by Wes
As to your point that you meant only to sell a handful of titles to

help a church; bullshit. Under the heading, "Buy A Title" you have
287 lordships listed...in Wales alone!!!

Yes i have a lot of Manorial Titles listed not quite 287
because if the heading has AKA after the title
it has previously been know by that name previously
overtime manor have change their name as you well know.

I say for the record my intention was to sell some Dormant Titles
which i claimed in 1999 Legally with my Solicitor
under Adverse Possession of Law which is 100% Legal
My intention was to Advertise these Titles for a few hundred pounds
and the money be donated for the restoration of 3 Local Church's

Dear Wes i will not be lowering my self to your standard and insult
you by calling you an Idiot or a Prick like you have previosly called
other Gentlemen in this Forum

All i will say to you is Specsavers have a special offer
Here is the link http://www.specsavers.co.uk/
buy one pair of glasses and get one pair free

I will say it has been a pleasure jousting with you
but what i will not stand is a person who is a Famacide,
Defamer, or Slanderer.
You have made defamatory and injurious, malicious statements
you have Defamation" and Libel me and these statements was made
without adequate research into the truthfulness of the statements.

My Solicitor Mr David Price of
David Price Solicitors & Advocates
21 Fleet Street
London EC4Y 1AA

Tel: +44 (0)20 7353 9999
Fax: +44 (0)20 7353 9990

Will be in contact with you shortly unless you retact your
statements and send me a written appologise.

Wes

2011-05-28 21:20:25 UTC

I remain honestly in doubt of your intent. You are dealing within an
"industry" (if it can be called that) filled nearly to the brim with
crooks and conmen. This very forum has been the downfall of many and
the saving-grace of more than a few would-be victims. It can be
commonly assumed a person is acurately judged by those he surrounds
himself with. Regardless, there are always exceptions to any norm and
perhaps, just perhaps, you are such an exception.

If I was incorrect in any of my statements, I apologize and retract
them. In hopes that you are, as you say, a good man, I have removed
all prior statements from this thread.

Derek Howard

2011-05-29 08:04:44 UTC

Dear Wes i have looked at the heading on this pagehttp://www.lordmarcher.com/page36.html
And the Heading is Landed Titles of which i am not selling any
Landed Titles and i have not previously advertised on my Website
that i was selling any Landed Titles.
ie Manorial Titles with Incorporeal Herditaments
I do not wish to sell any of my Personal Landed Titles
And i have not advertised any Landed Titles on my Website
The Heading Landed Titles has a detailed list on the left hand side
These heading are for information about the Subject of Manorialism
History of Manors
Landed Lordships
What is a Manor
Landed Barony
Lordship Rights
Manorial Records
Peerages & Titles
Class of Manorial Records
All these heading are about the Topic of Manorial Information
help a church; bullshit. Under the heading, "Buy A Title" you have
287 lordships listed...in Wales alone!!!
Yes i have a lot of Manorial Titles listed not quite 287
because if the heading has AKA after the title
it has previously been know by that name previously
overtime manor have change their name as you well know.
I say for the record my intention was to sell some Dormant Titles
which i claimed in 1999 Legally with my Solicitor
under Adverse Possession of Law which is 100% Legal
My intention was to Advertise these Titles for a few hundred pounds
and the money be donated for the restoration of 3 Local Church's
Dear Wes i will not be lowering my self to your standard and insult
you by calling you an Idiot or a Prick like you have previosly called
other Gentlemen in this Forum
All i will say to you is Specsavers have a special offer
Here is the linkhttp://www.specsavers.co.uk/
buy one pair of glasses and get one pair free
I will say it has been a pleasure jousting with you
but what i will not stand is a person who is a Famacide,
Defamer, or Slanderer.
You have made defamatory and injurious, malicious statements
you have Defamation" and Libel me and these statements was made
without adequate research into the truthfulness of the statements.
My Solicitor Mr David Price of
David Price Solicitors & Advocates
21 Fleet Street
London EC4Y 1AA
Tel: +44 (0)20 7353 9999
Fax: +44 (0)20 7353 9990
Will be in contact with you shortly unless you retact your
statements and send me a written appologise.

You make inaccurate and misleading statements on your web site. Let me
point a single simple one out:
“Can i add my Title to my Driving Licence & Passport Yes.
You need to contact the appropriate goverment department
The respective government department will anotate the documents with a
statement that you are know as the "Lord of Glamorgan." <http://
lordmarcher.com/page31.html>

May I have to refer you to the UK Foreign Office:
“A manorial lordship is not an aristocratic title, but a semi-extinct
form of landed property. Lordship in this sense is a synonym for
ownership. … _It cannot be stated on a passport_” (My emphasis).
<http://ukinusa.fco.gov.uk/en/about-us/faqs/knighthood-honours/buy-
british-title>
The FCO web page is designed to forewarn the gullible.

Will you withdraw and retract from your web site any and all
statements “made without adequate research into the truthfulness of
the statements”?

Derek Howard

Martin Goldstraw

2011-05-29 11:58:59 UTC

Post by Derek Howard
You make inaccurate and misleading statements on your web site. Let me

//Snipp//

Post by Derek Howard
“A manorial lordship is not an aristocratic title, but a semi-extinct
form of landed property. Lordship in this sense is a synonym for
ownership. … _It cannot be stated on a passport_” (My emphasis).
<http://ukinusa.fco.gov.uk/en/about-us/faqs/knighthood-honours/buy-
british-title>
The FCO web page is designed to forewarn the gullible.
Will you withdraw and retract from your web site any and all
statements “made without adequate research into the truthfulness of
the statements”?
Derek Howard- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

I beg to differ:
Home office guidance to Passport officials is clearly set down in a
document promulgated by The Home Office
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/agencies-public-bodies/ips/passports-policy-publications/observations-passports?view=Binary
and The Identity Commissioner.

http://www.identitycommissioner.org/cps/files/ips/live/assets/documents/Passport_policy_-_Titles_included_on_passports_(2).pdf

Both of these are UK Government websites and both quite clearly state:

[quote] Manorial titles
A Manorial title (i.e. Lord of the Manor) is not a title of nobility
and may be
bought and sold by the owner of the property to which the title
refers. The
Lord Lyon King of Arms has also confirmed that for Scottish Lairds it
is not
necessary for the words "Laird of" to appear on any part of a
passport.
Requests from applicants and passport holders for Manorial titles and
Scottish
Lairds to be included in their passports may be accepted providing
documentary evidence is submitted, and recorded in the passport with
the
observation e.g.:
• THE HOLDER IS THE LORD OF THE MANOR OF....................... [End
Quote]

I do not post this comment in support of any contributor to this
thread but simply wish to put straight a commonly posted urban myth
that the possessors of a Manor can't have the fact recorded on their
passports: They can. I have first hand experience of this and have
seen such a passport note (no, I am not a lord of a manor!).

Regards,
Martin
http://cheshire-heraldry.org.uk

Graham Milne

2011-05-30 17:34:43 UTC

Post by Martin Goldstraw
//Snipp//

Home office guidance to Passport officials is clearly set down in a
document promulgated by The Home Officehttp://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/agencies-public-bodies/ips/...
and The Identity Commissioner.
http://www.identitycommissioner.org/cps/files/ips/live/assets/documen...
[quote] Manorial titles
A Manorial title (i.e. Lord of the Manor) is not a title of nobility
and may be
bought and sold by the owner of the property to which the title
refers. The
Lord Lyon King of Arms has also confirmed that for Scottish Lairds it
is not
necessary for the words "Laird of" to appear on any part of a
passport.
Requests from applicants and passport holders for Manorial titles and
Scottish
Lairds to be included in their passports may be accepted providing
documentary evidence is submitted, and recorded in the passport with
the
• THE HOLDER IS THE LORD OF THE MANOR OF....................... [End
Quote]
I do not post this comment in support of any contributor to this
thread but simply wish to put straight a commonly posted urban myth
that the possessors of a Manor can't have the fact recorded on their
passports: They can. I have first hand experience of this and have
seen such a passport note (no, I am not a lord of a manor!).
Regards,
Martinhttp://cheshire-heraldry.org.uk

Derek Howard gets it wrong - again!

Wes

2011-07-20 03:07:23 UTC

Greetings, once again to all readers. Been awhile.

I've actually seen, and held, a US Passport that used "Lord of X" (X
being the associated lordship) as a "title" and later as a "surname."
The distinction lies in the fact that older US Passports had a "title"
line usually used by Mr, Mrs, or Dr. After this area was done away
with, the title was incorporated into the space of his surname. I saw
both the cancelled and current passports at the same time. They
weren't fakes and had many an international stamp.

It can be done. However, it is VERY difficult. The original loophole
described (used in the 80's) was closed thereafter. Now, I understand
the only method to be a total, legal name change.

Andrew Chaplin

2011-07-20 11:23:23 UTC

Post by Wes
Greetings, once again to all readers. Been awhile.
I've actually seen, and held, a US Passport that used "Lord of X" (X
being the associated lordship) as a "title" and later as a "surname."
The distinction lies in the fact that older US Passports had a "title"
line usually used by Mr, Mrs, or Dr. After this area was done away
with, the title was incorporated into the space of his surname. I saw
both the cancelled and current passports at the same time. They
weren't fakes and had many an international stamp.
It can be done. However, it is VERY difficult. The original loophole
described (used in the 80's) was closed thereafter. Now, I understand
the only method to be a total, legal name change.

"And that, children, is how we wound up with an Akins of that Ilk."

--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)

Sean J Murphy

2011-03-29 13:19:40 UTC

Post by Graham Milne
snip

But this is a mere property registration and seems to have nothing to
do with the Chief Herald's Office as far as I can see.

This is the way the 'racket' (I use the term advisedly) went: a
statutory declaration to the effect that an Irish 'feudal title' existed
was recorded in the Registry of Deeds, this document was presented for
the learned examination of the Chief Herald, who then issued a grant of
arms specifying the title, so that, voilà!, official validation had been
achieved. It was actually Terence MacCarthy who first drew attention to
this title brokering racket, disturbingly similar to his own activities,
and after the Belfast hoaxer's exposure in 1999 the Chief Herald of
course had to cease the practice. Morally of course the Irish Chief
Herald is in no position to criticise the likes of Mr Rafferty, '20th
Baron of Ballyanne', so it is left to us 'self-appointed saviours' to
comment on the matter.

Sean Murphy
Irish 'Feudal Titles'
http://homepage.eircom.net/~seanjmurphy/chiefs/feudaltitles.htm

Wes

2011-03-29 13:42:50 UTC

Interesting. Thanks for the background, Sean.

Okay. So the Irish option is closed to us. However, the unique nature
of English lordships may help here. As they are legally deemed "land"
and subject to specific regulation (LRA 2002), there may well be a
structure in place to address the fraud. I went ahead and emailed HM's
Land Registry for direction. However, I'm sure the last thing they
want to talk about is another manorial scammster. Will alert you here
to any developments. I'm afraid I'm on the wrong side of The Atlantic
to do much else. More's the pity.

Sean, it's been awhile since your MacCarthy Mor scandal slam-dunk.
Care to stretch your legs on this one? You're far better at this sort
of thing than I.

Sean J Murphy

2011-03-29 13:55:02 UTC

Post by Wes
Interesting. Thanks for the background, Sean.
Okay. So the Irish option is closed to us. However, the unique nature
of English lordships may help here. As they are legally deemed "land"
and subject to specific regulation (LRA 2002), there may well be a
structure in place to address the fraud. I went ahead and emailed HM's
Land Registry for direction. However, I'm sure the last thing they
want to talk about is another manorial scammster. Will alert you here
to any developments. I'm afraid I'm on the wrong side of The Atlantic
to do much else. More's the pity.
Sean, it's been awhile since your MacCarthy Mor scandal slam-dunk.
Care to stretch your legs on this one? You're far better at this sort
of thing than I.

The scammers just go on and on, but I will add the Ballyanne and other
Irish elements of the 'Lord Marcher' Rafferty case to my list of things
to check. I suspect that the origin of the Ballyane title is similar to
that of the Barony of Knockgraffon, dealt with in my webpage at
http://homepage.eircom.net/~seanjmurphy/chiefs/feudaltitles.htm

Sean Murphy

Turenne

2011-03-29 15:26:26 UTC

Dennis Walsh has put together an index of Irish Baronies:

http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlkik/ihm/baronies.htm

Sean will know better than me whether the list is exhaustive or not,
but Ballyanne, Co Wexford doesn't seem to appear..

RL

Wes

2011-03-29 15:45:37 UTC

Interesting! Thank you!!!

B G. Hamilton.

2011-03-29 16:09:14 UTC

http://baronytitles.com/index.php?mact=News,cntnt01,detail,0&cntnt01articleid=16&cntnt01returnid=19

Regards to all (well, most of you)

BGH

Sean J Murphy

2011-03-29 23:19:16 UTC

Post by B G. Hamilton.
http://baronytitles.com/index.php?mact=News,cntnt01,detail,0&cntnt01articleid=16&cntnt01returnid=19
Regards to all (well, most of you)
BGH

Yes, I see that your http://baronytitles.com/index.php?page=what-is has
been copied by Rafferty at http://www.lordmarcher.com/page8.html

Rafferty's http://www.lordmarcher.com/page27.html also appears to be
plagiarised from the Manorial Society's http://www.msgb.co.uk/lordships.html

I really don't forsee a long career for this guy if he can't produce his
own original guff.

Sean Murphy

B G. Hamilton.

2011-04-06 20:40:09 UTC

http://baronytitles.com/index.php?mact=News,cntnt01,detail,0&cntnt01a...
Regards to all (well, most of you)
BGH

Concerning the above; I have just had a call from the gentleman with
profuse apologies and explaining he copied my page for his interest in
the subject but by accident his web person pasted it into his own
site. I have accepted his apology as given in good faith.

BGH

Graham Milne

2011-03-29 22:38:01 UTC

Post by Turenne
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlkik/ihm/baronies.htm
Sean will know better than me whether the list is exhaustive or not,
but Ballyanne, Co Wexford doesn't seem to appear..
RL

In what sense are these 'baronies' baronies? Are or were they feudal
jurisdictions? Who erected them? I was under the impression that an
Irish barony was an administrative unit of some kind, though to
administer what I am not sure. Certainly, there are feudal baronies
listed in Burke's extinct peerage (copy not to hand at the moment).
Are these two lists connected in any way?

Sean J Murphy

2011-03-29 23:25:00 UTC

Post by Turenne
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlkik/ihm/baronies.htm
Sean will know better than me whether the list is exhaustive or not,
but Ballyanne, Co Wexford doesn't seem to appear..
RL

Yes, the above is a list of administrative baronies only, and while most
are of considerable antiquity, not all would have been designated as
feudal entities and have titles attached. The oldest trick in the title
huckster's book is to pick an Irish administrative barony and use it to
fabricate a saleable title, eg, the alleged 'Barony of Clare', Co
Galway, offered for sale by Manorial Auctioneers back in 2005.

Having looked a little more closely at Sean Thomas Arthur Rafferty's
'Feudal Barony' and 'Lordship' of Ballyanne, which he says he purchased
from Manorial Acutioneers in 2010
(http://wapedia.mobi/en/Baron_of_Ballyane), I find that the place is not
even an administrative barony but a parish in Co Wexford. A quick check
of the 'Red Book of Ormond' and the 'Calendar of Ormond Deeds' reveals
no mention of the place among Butler possessions. I am at a disadvantage
in that I do not have the relevant edition of the Manorial Auctioneers
catalogue in which Ballyane featured, but suspect it might have the same
Butler provenance as the 'Barony of Knockgraffon' offered for sale in 2006.

Rafferty's 'Full Irish Title List' at
http://www.lordmarcher.com/page19.html is currently blank, but it is
comforting to know that the titles are 'Registered & Claimed with a
Solicitor of the Law Society'.

Sean Murphy

Graham Milne

2011-03-29 23:34:04 UTC

Post by Turenne
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlkik/ihm/baronies.htm
Sean will know better than me whether the list is exhaustive or not,
but Ballyanne, Co Wexford doesn't seem to appear..
RL

Yes, the above is a list of administrative baronies only, and while most
are of considerable antiquity, not all would have been designated as
feudal entities and have titles attached. The oldest trick in the title
huckster's book is to pick an Irish administrative barony and use it to
fabricate a saleable title, eg, the alleged 'Barony of Clare', Co
Galway, offered for sale by Manorial Auctioneers back in 2005.
Having looked a little more closely at Sean Thomas Arthur Rafferty's
'Feudal Barony' and 'Lordship' of Ballyanne, which he says he purchased
from Manorial Acutioneers in 2010
(http://wapedia.mobi/en/Baron_of_Ballyane), I find that the place is not
even an administrative barony but a parish in Co Wexford. A quick check
of the 'Red Book of Ormond' and the 'Calendar of Ormond Deeds' reveals
no mention of the place among Butler possessions. I am at a disadvantage
in that I do not have the relevant edition of the Manorial Auctioneers
catalogue in which Ballyane featured, but suspect it might have the same
Butler provenance as the 'Barony of Knockgraffon' offered for sale in 2006.
Rafferty's 'Full Irish Title List' athttp://www.lordmarcher.com/page19.htmlis currently blank, but it is
comforting to know that the titles are 'Registered & Claimed with a
Solicitor of the Law Society'.
Sean Murphy

Thank you for your reply. So who administered these baronies and what
was the nature of their administration? I could certainly conceive
that a person designated to administer a barony could be called a
baron. Why were they called baronies in any event? Was there any
judicial function involved? Were they hereditary?

Confused of Tunbridge Wells

Sean J Murphy

2011-03-30 00:14:32 UTC

Post by Turenne
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlkik/ihm/baronies.htm
Sean will know better than me whether the list is exhaustive or not,
but Ballyanne, Co Wexford doesn't seem to appear..
RL

Yes, the above is a list of administrative baronies only, and while most
are of considerable antiquity, not all would have been designated as
feudal entities and have titles attached. The oldest trick in the title
huckster's book is to pick an Irish administrative barony and use it to
fabricate a saleable title, eg, the alleged 'Barony of Clare', Co
Galway, offered for sale by Manorial Auctioneers back in 2005.
Having looked a little more closely at Sean Thomas Arthur Rafferty's
'Feudal Barony' and 'Lordship' of Ballyanne, which he says he purchased
from Manorial Acutioneers in 2010
(http://wapedia.mobi/en/Baron_of_Ballyane), I find that the place is not
even an administrative barony but a parish in Co Wexford. A quick check
of the 'Red Book of Ormond' and the 'Calendar of Ormond Deeds' reveals
no mention of the place among Butler possessions. I am at a disadvantage
in that I do not have the relevant edition of the Manorial Auctioneers
catalogue in which Ballyane featured, but suspect it might have the same
Butler provenance as the 'Barony of Knockgraffon' offered for sale in 2006.
Rafferty's 'Full Irish Title List' athttp://www.lordmarcher.com/page19.htmlis currently blank, but it is
comforting to know that the titles are 'Registered& Claimed with a
Solicitor of the Law Society'.
Sean Murphy

Dear Confused of Tunbridge Wells

Irish administrative baronies can best be understood as the counterparts
of English hundreds, being in both cases subdivisions of the county or
shire. Irish baronies date from Norman times and were often formed from
old Gaelic territories. Baronies are still cited for some legal purposes
but have been defunct as administrative units since the 19th century.
The administrative barony should not be confused with the feudal barony
or the peerage barony, but needless to say, such confusion is part of
the stock in trade of title brokers.

Let's take an example, the Barony of Rathdown, Co Wicklow, in which my
modest estate is located: Rathdown is firstly an administrative unit
with its separated northern half in Co Dublin, the Earldom of
Rathdown(e) was an Irish peerage title granted to a member of the Monck
family in the 19th century, while Scott Macmillan, an actor in the
MacCarthy Mór affair and former consultant in the Office of the Chief
Herald, claims the 'feudal' title of Baron of Rathdown. I could never
establish from whence the latter title was acquired, but I find the
following online at
http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeohzt4/MacMillan-Armorial/MacMillanArmorial5.html
: 'Scott MacMillan of Rathdown: Argent a lion passant Gules between two
bars and in chief three mullets Azure. Confirmed to Scott MacMillan of
Holybrooke Hall (now of Rathdown) by the Chief Herald of Ireland, 4
March 1994.'

Sean Murphy

Graham Milne

2011-03-30 13:20:48 UTC

Post by Turenne
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlkik/ihm/baronies.htm
Sean will know better than me whether the list is exhaustive or not,
but Ballyanne, Co Wexford doesn't seem to appear..
RL

Yes, the above is a list of administrative baronies only, and while most
are of considerable antiquity, not all would have been designated as
feudal entities and have titles attached. The oldest trick in the title
huckster's book is to pick an Irish administrative barony and use it to
fabricate a saleable title, eg, the alleged 'Barony of Clare', Co
Galway, offered for sale by Manorial Auctioneers back in 2005.
Having looked a little more closely at Sean Thomas Arthur Rafferty's
'Feudal Barony' and 'Lordship' of Ballyanne, which he says he purchased
from Manorial Acutioneers in 2010
(http://wapedia.mobi/en/Baron_of_Ballyane), I find that the place is not
even an administrative barony but a parish in Co Wexford. A quick check
of the 'Red Book of Ormond' and the 'Calendar of Ormond Deeds' reveals
no mention of the place among Butler possessions. I am at a disadvantage
in that I do not have the relevant edition of the Manorial Auctioneers
catalogue in which Ballyane featured, but suspect it might have the same
Butler provenance as the 'Barony of Knockgraffon' offered for sale in 2006.
Rafferty's 'Full Irish Title List' athttp://www.lordmarcher.com/page19.htmliscurrently blank, but it is
comforting to know that the titles are 'Registered& Claimed with a
Solicitor of the Law Society'.
Sean Murphy

Dear Confused of Tunbridge Wells
Irish administrative baronies can best be understood as the counterparts
of English hundreds, being in both cases subdivisions of the county or
shire. Irish baronies date from Norman times and were often formed from
old Gaelic territories. Baronies are still cited for some legal purposes
but have been defunct as administrative units since the 19th century.
The administrative barony should not be confused with the feudal barony
or the peerage barony, but needless to say, such confusion is part of
the stock in trade of title brokers.
Let's take an example, the Barony of Rathdown, Co Wicklow, in which my
modest estate is located: Rathdown is firstly an administrative unit
with its separated northern half in Co Dublin, the Earldom of
Rathdown(e) was an Irish peerage title granted to a member of the Monck
family in the 19th century, while Scott Macmillan, an actor in the
MacCarthy Mï¿½r affair and former consultant in the Office of the Chief
Herald, claims the 'feudal' title of Baron of Rathdown. I could never
establish from whence the latter title was acquired, but I find the
following online athttp://mysite.verizon.net/vzeohzt4/MacMillan-Armorial/MacMillanArmori...
: 'Scott MacMillan of Rathdown: Argent a lion passant Gules between two
bars and in chief three mullets Azure. Confirmed to Scott MacMillan of
Holybrooke Hall (now of Rathdown) by the Chief Herald of Ireland, 4
March 1994.'
Sean Murphy

Thank you. But is a barony a recognized form of property which can be
sold, like a Scottish feudal barony? In short, does it have a legal
existence?

Sean J Murphy

2011-03-30 14:05:13 UTC

Post by Turenne
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlkik/ihm/baronies.htm
Sean will know better than me whether the list is exhaustive or not,
but Ballyanne, Co Wexford doesn't seem to appear..
RL

Yes, the above is a list of administrative baronies only, and while most
are of considerable antiquity, not all would have been designated as
feudal entities and have titles attached. The oldest trick in the title
huckster's book is to pick an Irish administrative barony and use it to
fabricate a saleable title, eg, the alleged 'Barony of Clare', Co
Galway, offered for sale by Manorial Auctioneers back in 2005.
Having looked a little more closely at Sean Thomas Arthur Rafferty's
'Feudal Barony' and 'Lordship' of Ballyanne, which he says he purchased
from Manorial Acutioneers in 2010
(http://wapedia.mobi/en/Baron_of_Ballyane), I find that the place is not
even an administrative barony but a parish in Co Wexford. A quick check
of the 'Red Book of Ormond' and the 'Calendar of Ormond Deeds' reveals
no mention of the place among Butler possessions. I am at a disadvantage
in that I do not have the relevant edition of the Manorial Auctioneers
catalogue in which Ballyane featured, but suspect it might have the same
Butler provenance as the 'Barony of Knockgraffon' offered for sale in 2006.
Rafferty's 'Full Irish Title List' athttp://www.lordmarcher.com/page19.htmliscurrently blank, but it is
comforting to know that the titles are 'Registered& Claimed with a
Solicitor of the Law Society'.
Sean Murphy

Dear Confused of Tunbridge Wells
Irish administrative baronies can best be understood as the counterparts
of English hundreds, being in both cases subdivisions of the county or
shire. Irish baronies date from Norman times and were often formed from
old Gaelic territories. Baronies are still cited for some legal purposes
but have been defunct as administrative units since the 19th century.
The administrative barony should not be confused with the feudal barony
or the peerage barony, but needless to say, such confusion is part of
the stock in trade of title brokers.
Let's take an example, the Barony of Rathdown, Co Wicklow, in which my
modest estate is located: Rathdown is firstly an administrative unit
with its separated northern half in Co Dublin, the Earldom of
Rathdown(e) was an Irish peerage title granted to a member of the Monck
family in the 19th century, while Scott Macmillan, an actor in the
MacCarthy M�r affair and former consultant in the Office of the Chief
Herald, claims the 'feudal' title of Baron of Rathdown. I could never
establish from whence the latter title was acquired, but I find the
following online athttp://mysite.verizon.net/vzeohzt4/MacMillan-Armorial/MacMillanArmori...
: 'Scott MacMillan of Rathdown: Argent a lion passant Gules between two
bars and in chief three mullets Azure. Confirmed to Scott MacMillan of
Holybrooke Hall (now of Rathdown) by the Chief Herald of Ireland, 4
March 1994.'
Sean Murphy

Thank you. But is a barony a recognized form of property which can be
sold, like a Scottish feudal barony? In short, does it have a legal
existence?

The Irish administrative barony is/was no more a form of saleable
property than a parish or an electoral division. Anglo-Irish peerage
barony titles can no more be bought and sold than British ones. We have
discussed the controversial feudal baronies sold by Manorial Auctioneers
and others, and views are polarised between those who hold that they are
defunct or fabricated, and those who believe that once created or
documented they can never be rendered extinct and can be traded. Of
course Irish law has little or nothing to say about noble titles, has no
legislation or constitutional provision permitting sales of titles or
even recognition of same. Since a couple of Chief Heralds were found
fumbling in the greasy till of title brokering the office has dropped
the whole matter like the proverbial hot spud. As for Chief Herald
Begley's infamous 1988 letter rubber-stamping Terence MacCarthy's sale
of 'Gaelic feudal lordships' and pseudo-learnedly citing the
Constitution, he was acting way outside the bounds of his authority and
the letter was probably drafted for the unfortunate clown.

Sean Murphy
'Statement of Former Chief Herald, October 2001',
http://homepage.eircom.net/~seanjmurphy/chiefs/begley.htm

PS On reflection, I should withdraw the expression 'clown', as in the
above context it is grossly offensive to the circus profession.

B G. Hamilton.

2011-03-30 16:21:41 UTC

Post by Turenne
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlkik/ihm/baronies.htm
Sean will know better than me whether the list is exhaustive or not,
but Ballyanne, Co Wexford doesn't seem to appear..
RL

Yes, the above is a list of administrative baronies only, and while most
are of considerable antiquity, not all would have been designated as
feudal entities and have titles attached. The oldest trick in the title
huckster's book is to pick an Irish administrative barony and use it to
fabricate a saleable title, eg, the alleged 'Barony of Clare', Co
Galway, offered for sale by Manorial Auctioneers back in 2005.
Having looked a little more closely at Sean Thomas Arthur Rafferty's
'Feudal Barony' and 'Lordship' of Ballyanne, which he says he purchased
from Manorial Acutioneers in 2010
(http://wapedia.mobi/en/Baron_of_Ballyane), I find that the place is not
even an administrative barony but a parish in Co Wexford. A quick check
of the 'Red Book of Ormond' and the 'Calendar of Ormond Deeds' reveals
no mention of the place among Butler possessions. I am at a disadvantage
in that I do not have the relevant edition of the Manorial Auctioneers
catalogue in which Ballyane featured, but suspect it might have the same
Butler provenance as the 'Barony of Knockgraffon' offered for sale in 2006.
Rafferty's 'Full Irish Title List' athttp://www.lordmarcher.com/page19.htmliscurrentlyblank, but it is
comforting to know that the titles are 'Registered& Claimed with a
Solicitor of the Law Society'.
Sean Murphy

Dear Confused of Tunbridge Wells
Irish administrative baronies can best be understood as the counterparts
of English hundreds, being in both cases subdivisions of the county or
shire. Irish baronies date from Norman times and were often formed from
old Gaelic territories. Baronies are still cited for some legal purposes
but have been defunct as administrative units since the 19th century.
The administrative barony should not be confused with the feudal barony
or the peerage barony, but needless to say, such confusion is part of
the stock in trade of title brokers.
Let's take an example, the Barony of Rathdown, Co Wicklow, in which my
modest estate is located: Rathdown is firstly an administrative unit
with its separated northern half in Co Dublin, the Earldom of
Rathdown(e) was an Irish peerage title granted to a member of the Monck
family in the 19th century, while Scott Macmillan, an actor in the
MacCarthy M r affair and former consultant in the Office of the Chief
Herald, claims the 'feudal' title of Baron of Rathdown. I could never
establish from whence the latter title was acquired, but I find the
following online athttp://mysite.verizon.net/vzeohzt4/MacMillan-Armorial/MacMillanArmori...
: 'Scott MacMillan of Rathdown: Argent a lion passant Gules between two
bars and in chief three mullets Azure. Confirmed to Scott MacMillan of
Holybrooke Hall (now of Rathdown) by the Chief Herald of Ireland, 4
March 1994.'
Sean Murphy

Thank you. But is a barony a recognized form of property which can be
sold, like a Scottish feudal barony? In short, does it have a legal
existence?

The Irish administrative barony is/was no more a form of saleable
property than a parish or an electoral division. Anglo-Irish peerage
barony titles can no more be bought and sold than British ones. We have
discussed the controversial feudal baronies sold by Manorial Auctioneers
and others, and views are polarised between those who hold that they are
defunct or fabricated, and those who believe that once created or
documented they can never be rendered extinct and can be traded. Of
course Irish law has little or nothing to say about noble titles, has no
legislation or constitutional provision permitting sales of titles or
even recognition of same. Since a couple of Chief Heralds were found
fumbling in the greasy till of title brokering the office has dropped
the whole matter like the proverbial hot spud. As for Chief Herald
Begley's infamous 1988 letter rubber-stamping Terence MacCarthy's sale
of 'Gaelic feudal lordships' and pseudo-learnedly citing the
Constitution, he was acting way outside the bounds of his authority and
the letter was probably drafted for the unfortunate clown.
Sean Murphy
'Statement of Former Chief Herald, October 2001',http://homepage.eircom.net/~seanjmurphy/chiefs/begley.htm
PS On reflection, I should withdraw the expression 'clown', as in the
above context it is grossly offensive to the circus profession.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Sean, Graham is not quite asking you the question directly enough.
When these Irish baronies were created, for administrative purposes as
you say, were they created as a possession of some individual? You
may know that in Scotland we had hereditary sheriffdoms. These were
owned by individuals who dispenced a form of justice and kept the
profits of that justice. They were abolished in 1746 and there was a
method of obtaining compensation for loss of office. If the type of
Irish baronies that we a speaking about were created as personal
possessions how were they abolished? I don't think any of us will
have any difficulty understanding local government re-organisation but
would have a problem if personal property was destroyed in the process
without some form of compensation.

BGH

Alex Maxwell Findlater

2011-03-31 06:33:08 UTC

You say that the Sheriffdoms were owned by the hereditary sheriffs.
In the modern usage of the word I think this is misleading. These
were appointments made by the Crown, in heredity. My understanding is
that the sheriff might be deprived for extreme bad performance of his
duties, but these appointments cannot be equated to baronies in the
sense that a barony implicitly was of lands owned by the baron, while
the sheriff acted as a Royal officer, albeit hereditary, like the
Cupbearers, Doorwards, Swordbearers, Admirals, Constables and
Marischals of medieval Scotland, all of which were hereditary
appointments. Of course some of the offices are still with us.
However as you say the sheriffs did retain the perquisites of the
sheriffdom, but against those they had to set their costs. Of dourse
in modern-speak they made a profit; they would have had to be very
high-minded for medieval lords to do something for nothing!

B G. Hamilton.

2011-03-31 07:31:22 UTC

On Mar 31, 7:33 am, Alex Maxwell Findlater

Post by Alex Maxwell Findlater
You say that the Sheriffdoms were owned by the hereditary sheriffs.
In the modern usage of the word I think this is misleading. These
were appointments made by the Crown, in heredity. My understanding is
that the sheriff might be deprived for extreme bad performance of his
duties, but these appointments cannot be equated to baronies in the
sense that a barony implicitly was of lands owned by the baron, while
the sheriff acted as a Royal officer, albeit hereditary, like the
Cupbearers, Doorwards, Swordbearers, Admirals, Constables and
Marischals of medieval Scotland, all of which were hereditary
appointments. Of course some of the offices are still with us.
However as you say the sheriffs did retain the perquisites of the
sheriffdom, but against those they had to set their costs. Of dourse
in modern-speak they made a profit; they would have had to be very
high-minded for medieval lords to do something for nothing!

With respect I never equated them to baronies, feudal or otherwise.
My point was that they were an office of profit as can be explained by
the Heretable Jurisdiction Act of 1747 (20 GEO. II., Cap 43). If you
look at the sections you will see that these offices were owned by
individuals and also owners of regalities. Further you will note that
where the jurisdiction was tied to an entailed estate the compensation
had to be applied to the entail and its debts. If these profits of
office had been akin to wages the compensation would have been the
property of the sherriff.

BGH

Alex Maxwell Findlater

2011-03-31 08:01:30 UTC

I think you have misconstrued what I wrote. I did not suggest that
you had equated them to baronies; I was making the distinction
because baronies were a jurisdiction, like sheriffdoms, but of a
different nature as being tied to the ownership of lands, and because
I felt it useful to highlight this distinction in the context of
rec.heraldry, where there are many readers who might not realise this,
at least immediately.

I agree with you entirely that they were offices of profit; as such I
feel that to use the modern word 'own' might give people unaware of
the difference of medieval law from modern law a confused idea of
their nature. In those days lands were said to be 'held' not 'owned',
and in the same way I think that the office is more easily explained
as being held rather than owned. I don't think that the concept of
shireival jurisdiction has every been adjudicated upon, but I suspect
that it would have been seen as a heritable right to justice those in
the sheriffdom and to retain the profit, but also a heritable duty to
the Crown: this is much more complex than straightforward ownership.

Baron of Ballyanne

2011-04-05 19:00:17 UTC

The scammers just go on and on, but I will add the Ballyanne and other
Irish elements of the 'Lord Marcher' Rafferty case to my list of things
to check. I suspect that the origin of the Ballyane title is similar to
that of the Barony of Knockgraffon, dealt with in my webpage athttp://homepage.eircom.net/~seanjmurphy/chiefs/feudaltitles.htm
Sean Murphy

Dear Mr Sean Murphy

You seem to be a Gentlemen of Intelligence and aptitude in grasping
truths, and facts

Please do not make judgements on i suspect etc, please check

My Name is Sean Thomas Arthur Rafferty, Baron of Ballyanne,
Lord of Dyffryn, Worlton, St. Nicholas.

If you have any question that you wish to ask me
Please feel free to contact me
You will find my Email Address & Contact Details on my Website.
www.lordmarcher.com
I would be pleased to answer any of your question

your learned friend

Sean Thomas Arthur Rafferty, Baron of Ballyanne,
Lord of Dyffryn, Worlton, St. Nicholas.

Sean J Murphy

2011-04-19 14:55:36 UTC

The scammers just go on and on, but I will add the Ballyanne and other
Irish elements of the 'Lord Marcher' Rafferty case to my list of things
to check. I suspect that the origin of the Ballyane title is similar to
that of the Barony of Knockgraffon, dealt with in my webpage athttp://homepage.eircom.net/~seanjmurphy/chiefs/feudaltitles.htm
Sean Murphy

Dear Mr Sean Murphy
You seem to be a Gentlemen of Intelligence and aptitude in grasping
truths, and facts
Please do not make judgements on i suspect etc, please check
My Name is Sean Thomas Arthur Rafferty, Baron of Ballyanne,
Lord of Dyffryn, Worlton, St. Nicholas.
If you have any question that you wish to ask me
Please feel free to contact me
You will find my Email Address& Contact Details on my Website.
www.lordmarcher.com
I would be pleased to answer any of your question
your learned friend
Sean Thomas Arthur Rafferty, Baron of Ballyanne,
Lord of Dyffryn, Worlton, St. Nicholas.

Thank you for the compliment, but I regret that I remain of the view
that you are not entitled to be recognised as 'Baron of Ballyanne' and
have no more right to sell titles than Terence MacCarthy Mór.

An extract from a previous message of mine:

'Having looked a little more closely at Sean Thomas Arthur Rafferty's
'Feudal Barony' and 'Lordship' of Ballyanne, which he says he purchased
from Manorial Acutioneers in 2010
(http://wapedia.mobi/en/Baron_of_Ballyane), I find that the place is not
even an administrative barony but a parish in Co Wexford. A quick check
of the 'Red Book of Ormond' and the 'Calendar of Ormond Deeds' reveals
no mention of the place among Butler possessions. I am at a disadvantage
in that I do not have the relevant edition of the Manorial Auctioneers
catalogue in which Ballyane featured, but suspect it might have the same
Butler provenance as the 'Barony of Knockgraffon' offered for sale in 2006.'

Could you perhaps publish the text of Manorial Auctioneers' catalogue
entry on the Barony of Ballyanne?

Sean Murphy

Baron of Ballyanne

2011-04-05 18:50:29 UTC

Wes i am not happy the way you cast judgement about me

my website www.lordmarcher.com
It is a Website about my legally owned and Registered Landed Manorial
Titles
Additional i also offer a service where i can sell you a Manorial
Possessory Title
These title are no longer in use and i working closely with legal
experts,
I acquires legal possession of these titles prior to making them
available for sale
I then can sell legaly the right to use the style & title of a dissued
manorial title

Again Wes another apologise is in order

Baron of Ballyanne

2011-04-05 17:30:28 UTC

Post by Wes
Ref
www.lordmarcher.com

Hello Gentlemen,

My Name is Sean Thomas Arthur Rafferty, Baron of Ballyanne, Lord of
Dyffryn.
If you have any question that i can help you with
you will find my Email Address & Contact Details on my Website.
I would be please to answer any of your question

Graham Milne

2011-04-05 23:27:12 UTC

Post by Wes
Ref
www.lordmarcher.com

Hello Gentlemen,
My Name is Sean Thomas Arthur Rafferty, Baron of Ballyanne, Lord of
Dyffryn.
If you have any question that i can help you with
you will find my Email Address & Contact Details on my Website.
I would be please to answer any of your question

I have looked at the website and notice that the Lordship of Splott
(Wales) is available. I must admit that I rather fancy being the Lord
of Splott. Worth a tenner?

Fred

2011-04-08 12:04:18 UTC

Post by Graham Milne
I have looked at the website and notice that the Lordship of Splott
(Wales) is available. I must admit that I rather fancy being the Lord
of Splott. Worth a tenner?

In the later part of the last century there was a Lord Splott, a life
peer.
For some reason the English find the name amusing, as shown by this
conversation in a London Tax Office at that time:

1st group leader (to no-one in particular) "This file is for a Lord
Splott!
This must be a joke."
(to 2nd group leader who came from Cardiff) "Hey Russ, I've got a file
here for someone called Lord Splott. No-one can really be called Lord
Splott
can they?"

2nd group leader "Yes they can, he's my father in law!"

It is, as they say, a small world.

Ian.

Turenne

2011-04-08 18:33:08 UTC

Post by Fred

Post by Graham Milne
I have looked at the website and notice that the Lordship of Splott
(Wales) is available. I must admit that I rather fancy being the Lord
of Splott. Worth a tenner?

In the later part of the last century there was a Lord Splott, a life
peer.
For some reason the English find the name amusing, as shown by this
1st group leader (to no-one in particular) "This file is for a Lord
Splott!
This must be a joke."
(to 2nd group leader who came from Cardiff) "Hey Russ, I've got a file
here for someone called Lord Splott. No-one can really be called Lord
Splott
can they?"
2nd group leader "Yes they can, he's my father in law!"
It is, as they say, a small world.
Ian.

Great story. Something very similar happened to me at a party given by
a fairly well known peer. V. Embarrassing!

RL

Graham Milne

2011-04-08 21:13:04 UTC

Post by Fred

Post by Graham Milne
I have looked at the website and notice that the Lordship of Splott
(Wales) is available. I must admit that I rather fancy being the Lord
of Splott. Worth a tenner?

Great story. Something very similar happened to me at a party given by
a fairly well known peer. V. Embarrassing!
RL

My mother had a friend whose nickers fell off when she was being
presented (i.e. as she curtsied). French knickers I think they were
called - held by a button at the side (which didn't). They were
retrieved by a Guards officer and are presumably still on a wall
somewhere.

HH the Turaki of Kano

2011-04-10 20:16:14 UTC

Is anyone else here terribly confused by this fellow presenting
himself as Lord Marcher, when the Marcher Lords were abolished by the
Laws in Wales Acts 1535–1542, which organised the Marches of Wales
into counties? Or have I missed some other possible use of the title
"Lord Marcher" here?

Baron of Ballyanne

2011-04-14 21:35:02 UTC

Post by HH the Turaki of Kano
Is anyone else here terribly confused by this fellow presenting
himself as Lord Marcher, when the Marcher Lords were abolished by the
Laws in Wales Acts 1535–1542, which organised the Marches of Wales
into counties? Or have I missed some other possible use of the title
"Lord Marcher" here?

Hello HH the Turaki of Kano

You are quite correct IN the fact that the Marcher Lords were
abolished by the
Laws in Wales Acts 1535–1542,

The Lord Marcher Title is a Titular Title
For the record the Lord Marcher is only a Style Titled Name
It does not carry any rights to any land
I only have a registered right to use the Name as Style and Title of
the Name which i use for my web site
A bit like the earl of glamorgan Titular Title.

Edward Stewart

2011-04-15 07:19:35 UTC

e $$iri k_i

2016-08-13 13:47:05 UTC