Harleian MS 1535

[Martin Goldstraw]

Notwithstanding that in the published version of the 1613 Visitations
(Record Society for the publication of original documents relating to
Lancashire & Cheshire Volume LVIII of 1909) in referring to Harleian
MS 1535 it states in the introduction:


"It was not considered advisable to give the Arms from Harleian MS.
1535, partly because they are very numerous, amounting in all to about
1260 shields, but principally because, in many cases, they are not
clearly drawn, some are wanting, and they certainly could not in their
entirety have formed part of the Visitation of 1613; moreover, they
are of no authority, and some of them are probably inaccurate and
misleading."

Does anyone know if there is a copy of Harleian MS 1535 available
other than The British Museum?

Regards,
Martin
http://cheshire-heraldry.org.uk

[Derek Howard]

Post by Martin Goldstraw
Notwithstanding that in the published version of the 1613 Visitations
(Record Society for the publication of original documents relating to
Lancashire & Cheshire Volume LVIII of 1909) in referring to Harleian
"It was not considered advisable to give the Arms from Harleian MS.
1535, partly because they are very numerous, amounting in all to about
1260 shields, but principally because, in many cases, they are not
clearly drawn, some are wanting, and they certainly could not in their
entirety have formed part of the Visitation of 1613; moreover, they
are of no authority, and some of them are probably inaccurate and
misleading."
Does anyone know if there is a copy of Harleian MS 1535 available
other than The British Museum?

According to Humphery-Smith:"Armigerous Ancestors", the 1612-14 St George visitation of Cheshire is contained in College of Arms ms C6, the British Library's Harleian mss 1070, 1535, 2187, and Add. ms 29783.

Wagner: "The Records and Collections of the College of Arms", 1952, 82, states that C6 is the original in St George's hand with signatures but that Harl. ms 1070 has some of the rough pedigrees with signatures.

The BL mss catalogue shows Add. ms 29783 is "A COPY of ye visitation Book of Cheshire ann. 1613, taken 1752 by R[obert] S[myth, M.A., Rector of Woodston, co. Huntingdon] from one in y e Possession of Tho. Wotton, of Point Pleasant in Kingston, Surr., Gent.;" with "an alphabetical list of ye Gentrys arms Blazon'd." Paper; 1752. Folio.

This last phrase may indicate a copy of the arms you seek - but of course in the same location.

Beyond that, I do not know which ones copy which.

Incidentally, Lancashire & Cheshire RS, vol. lviii, 1909 is also available as Harleian Soc. vol. lix.

Derek Howard