motto: Ne traverse par le pont

[Christopher Ingham]

The motto for the baronetcy of Briggs-Dayrell, Island of Barbados, created 1871, is "Ne traverse par le pont." I have this as "Pass not through the bridge" but am not at all certain certain that it is an accurate translation.

Christopher Ingham

[Richard Smith]

Post by Christopher Ingham
The motto for the baronetcy of Briggs-Dayrell, Island of Barbados,
created 1871, is "Ne traverse par le pont." I have this as "Pass not
through the bridge" but am not at all certain certain that it is an
accurate translation.

Are you sure it's not "Ne traverse pas le pont"? That's "Do not cross
the bridge" in French, which admittedly seems a silly motto, but at
least is good, idiomatic French, unlike the version with "par".

Richard

[Le Forgeron]

Post by Richard Smith

Post by Christopher Ingham
The motto for the baronetcy of Briggs-Dayrell, Island of
Barbados, created 1871, is "Ne traverse par le pont." I have this
as "Pass not through the bridge" but am not at all certain
certain that it is an accurate translation.

Are you sure it's not "Ne traverse pas le pont"? That's "Do not
cross the bridge" in French, which admittedly seems a silly motto,
but at least is good, idiomatic French, unlike the version with
"par".

Not that silly, if one consider the bridge as a metaphor : crossing
the bridge could be renouncing to principle for material gain... or
changing mind from tradition... including changing allegiance ?

Back to "Ne traverse par le pont", it might be tied to the tax
collected on bridge, which the bearer might have been reluctant to pay.
But that seems strange for Barbados, as it is unlikely to have such
middle-age toll on bridge.
But to reach Britain from Barbados, one cannot cross a bridge, so it
might be a pun on the land being behind a body of water, yet you need
a boat to come, not a bridge.

(in French, the negative is in "Ne", the "Pas" is only a decoration)

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[Christopher Ingham]

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Post by Richard Smith

Post by Christopher Ingham
The motto for the baronetcy of Briggs-Dayrell, Island of
Barbados, created 1871, is "Ne traverse par le pont." I have this
as "Pass not through the bridge" but am not at all certain
certain that it is an accurate translation.

Are you sure it's not "Ne traverse pas le pont"? That's "Do not
cross the bridge" in French, which admittedly seems a silly motto,
but at least is good, idiomatic French, unlike the version with
"par".

Not that silly, if one consider the bridge as a metaphor : crossing
the bridge could be renouncing to principle for material gain... or
changing mind from tradition... including changing allegiance ?
Back to "Ne traverse par le pont", it might be tied to the tax
collected on bridge, which the bearer might have been reluctant to pay.
But that seems strange for Barbados, as it is unlikely to have such
middle-age toll on bridge.
But to reach Britain from Barbados, one cannot cross a bridge, so it
might be a pun on the land being behind a body of water, yet you need
a boat to come, not a bridge.

I’m sure the bridge represents the name Briggs, as it is a variant of the more common Bridges, both being derived from OE brycg, and an example of -cg, in the northern English dialect retaining hard (g) against the palatalized (dʒ) of the south.

Thanks for your input.

Christopher Ingham

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[Chris Pitt Lewis]

Post by Richard Smith

Post by Christopher Ingham
The motto for the baronetcy of Briggs-Dayrell, Island of Barbados,
created 1871, is "Ne traverse par le pont." I have this as "Pass not
through the bridge" but am not at all certain certain that it is an
accurate translation.

Are you sure it's not "Ne traverse pas le pont"? That's "Do not cross
the bridge" in French, which admittedly seems a silly motto, but at
least is good, idiomatic French, unlike the version with "par".
Richard

On the other hand "traverse par le pont" means "cross by the bridge",
and "don't cross by the bridge" (i.e. wade manfully through the stream
instead of taking the easy course) seems a reasonable enough, if perhaps
foolishly macho, motto.

My French is limited, but I suspect you can drop the "pas" from the
negative in poetic or archaic language.

[Christopher Ingham]

Post by Chris Pitt Lewis
On the other hand "traverse par le pont" means "cross by the bridge",
and "don't cross by the bridge" (i.e. wade manfully through the stream
instead of taking the easy course) seems a reasonable enough, if perhaps
foolishly macho, motto.
My French is limited, but I suspect you can drop the "pas" from the
negative in poetic or archaic language.
--

I've just discovered that the motto means "Cross not the bridge" (see my reply to Richard Smith above), obviously some macho posturing.

Christopher Ingham

[Pete Barrett]

Post by Christopher Ingham

Post by Chris Pitt Lewis
On the other hand "traverse par le pont" means "cross by the bridge",
and "don't cross by the bridge" (i.e. wade manfully through the stream
instead of taking the easy course) seems a reasonable enough, if perhaps
foolishly macho, motto.
My French is limited, but I suspect you can drop the "pas" from the
negative in poetic or archaic language.
--

I've just discovered that the motto means "Cross not the bridge" (see my
reply to Richard Smith above), obviously some macho posturing.

If your conjecture above that 'bridge' represents the Briggs family is
correct, then 'cross' could mean 'oppose' or 'antagonise'. It's true that
'traverser' does _not_ mean that in French, but a translation of the English
pun into French for use as a motto seems quite possible.

[Christopher Ingham]

Post by Pete Barrett
If your conjecture above that 'bridge' represents the Briggs family is
correct, then 'cross' could mean 'oppose' or 'antagonise'. It's true that
'traverser' does _not_ mean that in French, but a translation of the English
pun into French for use as a motto seems quite possible.

As puns are not infrequently found in mottos, your suggestion would seem right.

Christopher Ingham

[Andrew Chaplin]

Post by Christopher Ingham
I've just discovered that the motto means "Cross not the bridge" (see
my reply to Richard Smith above), obviously some macho posturing.

Sounds Monty Python-ish to me.

[Christopher Ingham]

Post by Richard Smith

Post by Christopher Ingham
The motto for the baronetcy of Briggs-Dayrell, Island of Barbados,
created 1871, is "Ne traverse par le pont." I have this as "Pass not
through the bridge" but am not at all certain certain that it is an
accurate translation.

Are you sure it's not "Ne traverse pas le pont"? That's "Do not cross
the bridge" in French, which admittedly seems a silly motto, but at
least is good, idiomatic French, unlike the version with "par".

Your translation is what I have just found given in Debrett's baronetage and knightage (1879) ("Cross not the bridge"). I too had originally thought I mistranscribed "par" from my original source, Burke's General armory (1884), so I double-checked it.

Christopher Ingham