Discussion:
ancient history rec.heraldry
(too old to reply)
3ARwun
2017-11-22 15:08:15 UTC
Permalink
so the group is averaging 3 posts a month now..including the monthly autopost MFAQ..which was the only post so far for novemeber...

I'm starting to miss the old days when McCartney declared himself the true king of ireland, or atkins stated he was chief of the name...

We certainly had more than 3 posts a day in those days.
Huge
2017-11-22 15:16:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by 3ARwun
so the group is averaging 3 posts a month now..including the monthly autopost MFAQ..which was the only post so far for novemeber...
I'm starting to miss the old days when McCartney declared himself the true king of ireland, or atkins stated he was chief of the name...
We certainly had more than 3 posts a day in those days.
Usenet is dying. Sadly.

Here's some content. Apologies for the fact it's likely a FAQ.

Anyone know how I can find out to whom the crest (this may be the wrong term
and if so, apologies) belongs on the impression of a signet ring I have. It
was inherited from a grandparent and contains a slip of paper stating that
it is our family crest (and yes, I know that crests do not belong to families
but to individuals, but as the oldest son of the oldest son, it may well
be mine.)

The College of Arms kindly (and positively) responded to my enquiry (with
a manually typed letter!) but want, IIRC, £400 to look into it.
--
Today is Sweetmorn, the 34th day of The Aftermath in the YOLD 3183
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.
Tim Powys-Lybbe
2017-11-23 12:45:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Huge
Post by 3ARwun
so the group is averaging 3 posts a month now..including the monthly autopost MFAQ..which was the only post so far for novemeber...
I'm starting to miss the old days when McCartney declared himself the true king of ireland, or atkins stated he was chief of the name...
We certainly had more than 3 posts a day in those days.
Usenet is dying. Sadly.
Here's some content. Apologies for the fact it's likely a FAQ.
Anyone know how I can find out to whom the crest (this may be the wrong term
and if so, apologies) belongs on the impression of a signet ring I have. It
was inherited from a grandparent and contains a slip of paper stating that
it is our family crest (and yes, I know that crests do not belong to families
but to individuals, but as the oldest son of the oldest son, it may well
be mine.)
The College of Arms kindly (and positively) responded to my enquiry (with
a manually typed letter!) but want, IIRC, £400 to look into it.
I suspect you originally attached an image to your posting. But Usenet
does not handle images on most Newsgroups. What you have to do is to
find a website on which the image can be placed and then make a ost
giving the website address.

If you get stuck I have a website and should be able to put the image
somewhere for a limited time.
--
Tim Powys-Lybbe ***@powys.org
for a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org/
Huge
2017-11-23 15:57:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim Powys-Lybbe
Post by Huge
Post by 3ARwun
so the group is averaging 3 posts a month now..including the monthly autopost MFAQ..which was the only post so far for novemeber...
I'm starting to miss the old days when McCartney declared himself the true king of ireland, or atkins stated he was chief of the name...
We certainly had more than 3 posts a day in those days.
Usenet is dying. Sadly.
Here's some content. Apologies for the fact it's likely a FAQ.
Anyone know how I can find out to whom the crest (this may be the wrong term
and if so, apologies) belongs on the impression of a signet ring I have. It
was inherited from a grandparent and contains a slip of paper stating that
it is our family crest (and yes, I know that crests do not belong to families
but to individuals, but as the oldest son of the oldest son, it may well
be mine.)
The College of Arms kindly (and positively) responded to my enquiry (with
a manually typed letter!) but want, IIRC, £400 to look into it.
I suspect you originally attached an image to your posting.
Nope. Because I know that ...
Post by Tim Powys-Lybbe
Usenet does not handle images on most Newsgroups. What you have to do is to
find a website on which the image can be placed and then make a ost
giving the website address.
I shall do that. Back shortly.
--
Today is Boomtime, the 35th day of The Aftermath in the YOLD 3183
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.
Huge
2017-11-23 17:48:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim Powys-Lybbe
Post by Huge
Post by 3ARwun
so the group is averaging 3 posts a month now..including the monthly autopost MFAQ..which was the only post so far for novemeber...
I'm starting to miss the old days when McCartney declared himself the true king of ireland, or atkins stated he was chief of the name...
We certainly had more than 3 posts a day in those days.
Usenet is dying. Sadly.
Here's some content. Apologies for the fact it's likely a FAQ.
Anyone know how I can find out to whom the crest (this may be the wrong term
and if so, apologies) belongs on the impression of a signet ring I have. It
was inherited from a grandparent and contains a slip of paper stating that
it is our family crest (and yes, I know that crests do not belong to families
but to individuals, but as the oldest son of the oldest son, it may well
be mine.)
The College of Arms kindly (and positively) responded to my enquiry (with
a manually typed letter!) but want, IIRC, £400 to look into it.
I suspect you originally attached an image to your posting.
Here you go. Bear in mind this is a contrast enhanced, black and white (the
original is bright red because it's into sealing wax), macro photo of
something that is probably 3mm across and is the result of at least a
dozen attempts to get a photo, so please don't ask for a better one!

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/5b403kyq4z4sb5s/AADEZx4j3YUQ1kIflKo5TrOLa?dl=0
--
Today is Boomtime, the 35th day of The Aftermath in the YOLD 3183
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.
Tim Powys-Lybbe
2017-11-25 22:38:11 UTC
Permalink
<snip for brevity>
Post by Huge
Post by Tim Powys-Lybbe
Post by Huge
Anyone know how I can find out to whom the crest (this may be the wrong term
and if so, apologies) belongs on the impression of a signet ring I have. It
was inherited from a grandparent and contains a slip of paper stating that
it is our family crest (and yes, I know that crests do not belong to families
but to individuals, but as the oldest son of the oldest son, it may well
be mine.)
The College of Arms kindly (and positively) responded to my enquiry (with
a manually typed letter!) but want, IIRC, £400 to look into it.
I suspect you originally attached an image to your posting.
Here you go. Bear in mind this is a contrast enhanced, black and white (the
original is bright red because it's into sealing wax), macro photo of
something that is probably 3mm across and is the result of at least a
dozen attempts to get a photo, so please don't ask for a better one!
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/5b403kyq4z4sb5s/AADEZx4j3YUQ1kIflKo5TrOLa?dl=0
Ass photographs of seals go, I reckon that's a good one, particularly
considering its small size. But I would be guessing if I attempted to
describe the charges on the seal. It does however look like impaled
arms, of husband and wife.

If your grandfather thought those were the arms (not crest, please) of
your forbears and you wish to know if there is any record of their
having a coat of arms and whether it might be the same as either your
image or either side of your image then the best way forward is to see
what information can be found of your grandparents.

So you will have to reveal your name and your antecedents and where you
all lived. Then those of us with the time and the odd record book can
have a look to see what heraldry might have been associated with these
families. I would reckon that six generations of the line of your
forbears would be enough to start with.

If you have already approached the College of Arms, it sounds as if your
ancestry is English. Can you confirm this as it affects where the
searches should be made?

Although it seems odd that a family should lose the knowledge of their
arms, I recently discovered that, quite unknown to him, a slightly
remote cousin was very clearly a beneficiary of a grant (more exactly
'ratified and confirmed') of arms in 1897 by the then Ulster king of
arms in Dublin. He had no idea that he had any arms let alone that he
could - should, even - display them. So it is possible that some arms
could be found for your family even if you have little idea what are the
facts.

If if no historical arms can be found of your forbears, there are people
who can help you to devise some of your own.
--
Tim Powys-Lybbe ***@powys.org
for a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org/
Huge
2017-11-26 11:23:49 UTC
Permalink
[15 lines snipped]
Post by Tim Powys-Lybbe
Post by Huge
Post by Tim Powys-Lybbe
I suspect you originally attached an image to your posting.
Here you go.
[17 lines snipped]
Post by Tim Powys-Lybbe
So you will have to reveal your name and your antecedents and where you
all lived. Then those of us with the time and the odd record book can
have a look to see what heraldry might have been associated with these
families. I would reckon that six generations of the line of your
forbears would be enough to start with.
Tim, thanks for your prompt and helpful reply, but I'm not prepared to
put that information on Usenet. There are too many mad people out here.
--
Today is Setting Orange, the 38th day of The Aftermath in the YOLD 3183
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.
3ARwun
2017-11-26 19:07:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim Powys-Lybbe
<snip for brevity>
Post by Huge
Post by Tim Powys-Lybbe
Post by Huge
Anyone know how I can find out to whom the crest (this may be the wrong term
and if so, apologies) belongs on the impression of a signet ring I have. It
was inherited from a grandparent and contains a slip of paper stating that
it is our family crest (and yes, I know that crests do not belong to families
but to individuals, but as the oldest son of the oldest son, it may well
be mine.)
The College of Arms kindly (and positively) responded to my enquiry (with
a manually typed letter!) but want, IIRC, £400 to look into it.
I suspect you originally attached an image to your posting.
Here you go. Bear in mind this is a contrast enhanced, black and white (the
original is bright red because it's into sealing wax), macro photo of
something that is probably 3mm across and is the result of at least a
dozen attempts to get a photo, so please don't ask for a better one!
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/5b403kyq4z4sb5s/AADEZx4j3YUQ1kIflKo5TrOLa?dl=0
Ass photographs of seals go, I reckon that's a good one, particularly
considering its small size. But I would be guessing if I attempted to
describe the charges on the seal. It does however look like impaled
arms, of husband and wife.
--
for a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org/
not that bad a photo, just enough detail that I'm guessing those are ermine tails on the chevron...
3ARwun
2017-11-24 18:59:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim Powys-Lybbe
Post by Huge
Usenet is dying. Sadly.
hopefully rec.heraldry can keep going as a google group if it dies, still be searchable, and technically going...

although as a poster noted on another forum, the entire "discussion boards" model seems to be dying in general.
Post by Tim Powys-Lybbe
Post by Huge
Here's some content. Apologies for the fact it's likely a FAQ.
Anyone know how I can find out to whom the crest (this may be the wrong term
and if so, apologies) belongs on the impression of a signet ring I have. It
was inherited from a grandparent and contains a slip of paper stating that
it is our family crest (and yes, I know that crests do not belong to families
but to individuals, but as the oldest son of the oldest son, it may well
be mine.)
The College of Arms kindly (and positively) responded to my enquiry (with
a manually typed letter!) but want, IIRC, £400 to look into it.
I suspect you originally attached an image to your posting. But Usenet
does not handle images on most Newsgroups. What you have to do is to
find a website on which the image can be placed and then make a ost
giving the website address.
If you get stuck I have a website and should be able to put the image
somewhere for a limited time.
rec.heraldry direct thru usenet was capable of such a thing in it's heyday. I don't know if it still can, or whether such a thing would pass thru to google groups. It always worked better to put an image on a website and just include a link in your post. Free storage and free websites abound.
3ARwun
2017-11-24 19:01:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim Powys-Lybbe
Post by Huge
Post by 3ARwun
so the group is averaging 3 posts a month now..including the monthly autopost MFAQ..which was the only post so far for novemeber...
I'm starting to miss the old days when McCartney declared himself the true king of ireland, or atkins stated he was chief of the name...
We certainly had more than 3 posts a day in those days.
Usenet is dying. Sadly.
Here's some content. Apologies for the fact it's likely a FAQ.
Anyone know how I can find out to whom the crest (this may be the wrong term
and if so, apologies) belongs on the impression of a signet ring I have. It
was inherited from a grandparent and contains a slip of paper stating that
it is our family crest (and yes, I know that crests do not belong to families
but to individuals, but as the oldest son of the oldest son, it may well
be mine.)
The College of Arms kindly (and positively) responded to my enquiry (with
a manually typed letter!) but want, IIRC, £400 to look into it.
I suspect you originally attached an image to your posting. But Usenet
does not handle images on most Newsgroups. What you have to do is to
find a website on which the image can be placed and then make a ost
giving the website address.
If you get stuck I have a website and should be able to put the image
somewhere for a limited time.
--
for a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org/
I remember that post. Although the MFAQ eschews the concept of family arms, it depends on the jurisdiction, if any. And many places (including England) honor the family arms prohibition more in the breach than observing ...
Peter Kurrild-Klitgaard
2017-11-24 10:05:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by 3ARwun
so the group is averaging 3 posts a month now..including the monthly autopost MFAQ..which was the only post so far for novemeber...
I'm starting to miss the old days when McCartney declared himself the true king of ireland, or atkins stated he was chief of the name...
We certainly had more than 3 posts a day in those days.
I agree. In the mid-1990s to mid-2000s this really was an excellent forum. Even if a bit crazy at times.

Facebook has the dynamism, but unfortunately also is so ephemeral, with little possibility of searching discussions, etc.

Best wishes,

Peter Kurrild-Klitgaard
Doug Powell
2017-11-29 18:24:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by 3ARwun
so the group is averaging 3 posts a month now..including the monthly autopost MFAQ..which was the only post so far for novemeber...
I'm starting to miss the old days when McCartney declared himself the true king of ireland, or atkins stated he was chief of the name...
We certainly had more than 3 posts a day in those days.
Would it help if I declared myself the Knight of Glin?
3ARwun
2017-12-05 13:32:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Doug Powell
Post by 3ARwun
so the group is averaging 3 posts a month now..including the monthly autopost MFAQ..which was the only post so far for novemeber...
I'm starting to miss the old days when McCartney declared himself the true king of ireland, or atkins stated he was chief of the name...
We certainly had more than 3 posts a day in those days.
Would it help if I declared myself the Knight of Glin?
it might; but better to declare yourself king of this or that and start selling titles despite the two obvious forgeries in the supposed lineage of your kingship.

Of course, that would merely be the start of a flamewar, traffic for the sake of wasting bandwith. But it caused me to remember the italian court scheme that some used to "prove" their claims. Does anyone remember the sue your friend, then withdraw -stipulating to his claims, so that the court affirms the claims? Any evidence of anyone still doing this?

Also, have fake baronies and lord of the manor titles disappeared all of a sudden, or those opposed finally given up?
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