Discussion:
Arms for HH Pope Francis?
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The Chief
2013-03-15 03:43:00 UTC
Permalink
I wonder if His Holiness will continue to use the ams he employed as
Archbishop of Buenos Aires, with modifications in accoutrements, of
course, shown at
Loading Image...

Or perhaps adopt something new? I wonder what the time scale is for
deciding on the new papal arms - I am assuming that they should be
displayed at the installation Mass next Tuesday? As a traditionalist,
I would love to see a return of the papal triple crown on the arms,
but somehow I don't think that will happen.

Regards,
The Chief
Turenne
2013-03-18 14:57:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Chief
I wonder if His Holiness will continue to use the ams he employed as
Archbishop of Buenos Aires, with modifications in accoutrements, of
course, shown at
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Escudo_de_Armas_del_Cardenal_Jorge_Mario_Bergoglio.png
Or perhaps adopt something new? I wonder what the time scale is for
deciding on the new papal arms - I am assuming that they should be
displayed at the installation Mass next Tuesday? As a traditionalist,
I would love to see a return of the papal triple crown on the arms,
but somehow I don't think that will happen.
Regards,
The Chief
Hi Chief

Here are The Pope's new arms (basically his old arms with papal tiara etc)

http://press.catholica.va/news_services/bulletin/news/30649.php?index=30649&lang=en

Richard
Outis
2013-03-19 17:13:20 UTC
Permalink
Am I the only one to find it somewhat audacious to have the jesuit insignia so prominently displayed on the papal arms?
Post by Turenne
Post by The Chief
I wonder if His Holiness will continue to use the ams he employed as
Archbishop of Buenos Aires, with modifications in accoutrements, of
course, shown at
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Escudo_de_Armas_del_Cardenal_Jorge_Mario_Bergoglio.png
Or perhaps adopt something new? I wonder what the time scale is for
deciding on the new papal arms - I am assuming that they should be
displayed at the installation Mass next Tuesday? As a traditionalist,
I would love to see a return of the papal triple crown on the arms,
but somehow I don't think that will happen.
Regards,
The Chief
Hi Chief
Here are The Pope's new arms (basically his old arms with papal tiara etc)
http://press.catholica.va/news_services/bulletin/news/30649.php?index=30649&lang=en
Richard
Turenne
2013-03-19 18:20:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Outis
Am I the only one to find it somewhat audacious to have the jesuit insignia so prominently displayed on the papal arms?
Why audacious; isn't he the first Jesuit to become Pope?

RL
Outis
2013-03-20 15:46:52 UTC
Permalink
Because the jesuits are supposed to have absolute obedience to their superiors (and the Superior), up to and including the pope... Doesn't seem like the kind of message the church should be stressing right now.
Post by Turenne
Post by Outis
Am I the only one to find it somewhat audacious to have the jesuit insignia so prominently displayed on the papal arms?
Why audacious; isn't he the first Jesuit to become Pope?
RL
Outis
2013-03-20 15:55:22 UTC
Permalink
In addition, jesuits are not supposed to be bishops in the first place. Jesuits are supposed to reject episcopal appointments unless overridden by their vow of obedience.

A pope or superior can compel a jesuit to accept an appointment, but since the pope-elect is free to reject the election, a jesuit who keeps his vow should theoretically never becomes pope.

So did Francis break his jesuit vow in becoming pope? Hmm...
Post by Outis
Because the jesuits are supposed to have absolute obedience to their superiors (and the Superior), up to and including the pope... Doesn't seem like the kind of message the church should be stressing right now.
Post by Turenne
Post by Outis
Am I the only one to find it somewhat audacious to have the jesuit insignia so prominently displayed on the papal arms?
Why audacious; isn't he the first Jesuit to become Pope?
RL
gregs talkin
2013-03-20 18:40:44 UTC
Permalink
In addition, jesuits are not supposed to be bishops in the first place.  Jesuits are supposed to reject episcopal appointments unless overridden by their vow of obedience.
A pope or superior can compel a jesuit to accept an appointment, but since the pope-elect is free to reject the election, a jesuit who keeps his vow should theoretically never becomes pope.
So did Francis break his jesuit vow in becoming pope?  Hmm...
Because the jesuits are supposed to have absolute obedience to their superiors (and the Superior), up to and including the pope...  Doesn't seem like the kind of message the church should be stressing right now.
Post by Turenne
Post by Outis
Am I the only one to find it somewhat audacious to have the jesuit insignia so prominently displayed on the papal arms?
Why audacious; isn't he the first Jesuit to become Pope?
RL- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
It would seem then that the church violated it's own policy. They
then stamped with the Pope's new arms . . .
w***@hotmail.com
2013-03-20 19:55:22 UTC
Permalink
But then there is nothing that says the Pope must be a Bishop (or even a Priest) to be elected to the papacy; there are several instances of people elected who weren't either (but were usually subsequently ordained or ordinated thus as a matter of course.)
gregs talkin
2013-03-21 02:38:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by w***@hotmail.com
But then there is nothing that says the Pope must be a Bishop (or even a Priest) to be elected to the papacy; there are several instances of people elected who weren't either (but were usually subsequently ordained or ordinated thus as a matter of course.)
Uh, is there anything that says he must be Catholic?
Turenne
2013-03-21 09:58:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by gregs talkin
Post by w***@hotmail.com
But then there is nothing that says the Pope must be a Bishop (or even a Priest) to be elected to the papacy; there are several instances of people elected who weren't either (but were usually subsequently ordained or ordinated thus as a matter of course.)
Uh, is there anything that says he must be Catholic?
I doubt it; St Peter was Jewish!

RL
Martin Goldstraw
2013-03-21 10:27:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Turenne
Post by gregs talkin
Post by w***@hotmail.com
But then there is nothing that says the Pope must be a Bishop (or even a Priest) to be elected to the papacy; there are several instances of people elected who weren't either (but were usually subsequently ordained or ordinated thus as a matter of course.)
Uh, is there anything that says he must be Catholic?
I doubt it; St Peter was Jewish!
RL
I laughed when I read Greg's question but I have to say Richard that
your reply has made my day. I split my sides!

Thanks to all.
Martin

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