Discussion:
Kerr - Lothian
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re
2013-02-11 14:40:53 UTC
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Is there any known reason that the Kerr field colour changed from vert to gules and the unicorn's heads disappeared ?
gregs talkin
2013-02-11 19:10:53 UTC
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Post by re
Is there any known reason that the Kerr field colour changed from vert to gules and the unicorn's heads disappeared ?
You must be referring to the arms of Alistair William Jackson Kerr.
His grant is relatively new: 2001 by Lord Lyon.
Turenne
2013-02-11 20:19:17 UTC
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Post by gregs talkin
Post by re
Is there any known reason that the Kerr field colour changed from vert to gules and the unicorn's heads disappeared ?
You must be referring to the arms of Alistair William Jackson Kerr.
His grant is relatively new: 2001 by Lord Lyon.
That may be true; but I still don't understand the question. Which Kerr arms changed the field tincture from vert to gules?

RL
gregs talkin
2013-02-11 20:32:47 UTC
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Post by Turenne
Post by gregs talkin
Post by re
Is there any known reason that the Kerr field colour changed from vert to gules and the unicorn's heads disappeared ?
You must be referring to the arms of Alistair William Jackson Kerr.
His grant is relatively new: 2001 by Lord Lyon.
That may be true; but I still don't understand the question. Which Kerr arms changed the field tincture from vert to gules?
RL
I don't know either, so I looked up the Kerr arms that I knew about.
I suppose re has looked up another grant(s) and is trying to narrow
down an ancestor . . . Maybe re can reply and clarify is question.
re
2013-02-11 22:24:07 UTC
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Post by re
Is there any known reason that the Kerr field colour changed from vert to gules and the unicorn's heads disappeared ?
1) Papworth's
Vert on a chev. betw. three unicorn's heads erased arg. as many mullets sa. Kerr.
The heads armed and maned or. Ker, Duke of Roxburghe, quartering Weapont. Ker, Gateshaw, co. Roxburgh.

2) Rietsap's
Kerr Mq de Lothian —$— Ecosse. (Bn Newbottle, V& oct. 1591; Ct de Lothian, 10 fév. 1606; ba ron de Jedburgh, i fév. 1622; Ct d'Ancrum, 24 juin 1633, Lord Ker de Newbottle, VCt de Briene et Mq de Lothian, 23 juin 1701; titres dans la pairie à Ecosse; Bn Kerr de Kerraheugh, dans la pairie du Royaume-Uni, 17 juil. 1821.) Ec.: 1+4: d'az. 1 soleil d'or (Loftan); 2+3: de gu. 1 chev. d'arg. ch. de 3 étoiles du champ. (Kerr).; C.: 1 soleil d'or T.: à dextre 1 ange au nat. hab. d'az. le surtout de sin. hab. et chevelé d'or à sen. 1 licorne d'arg. accornée, crinée et onglée d'or ornée 1 collier de gu. ch. de 3 étoiles d'arg.; D.: sero sed serio.
re
2013-02-16 09:45:42 UTC
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Post by re
Is there any known reason that the Kerr field colour changed from vert to gules and the unicorn's heads disappeared ?
may it be that the
Ker, Duke of Roxburghe
and the
Kerr Mq de Lothian
are two completely different families ?
Turenne
2013-02-16 21:34:34 UTC
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Arms of the Duke of Roxburgh:

Quarterly, 1st and 4th grandquarters: quarterly, 1st and 4th, Vert on a Chevron between three Unicorns' Heads erased Argent armed and maned Or as many Mullets Sable (Ker); 2nd and 3rd, Gules three Mascles Or (Weepont); 2nd and 3rd grandquarters: Argent three Stars of five points Azure (Innes)

Arms of the Marquess of Lothian:

Quarterly: 1st and 4th, A Sun in Splendour proper (Lothian, as a coat of augmentation); 2nd and 3rd, Gules on a Chevron Argent three Mullets of the field (Kerr of Ferniehurst)

This should be helpful:

http://www.heraldry-online.org.uk/kerr/kerr-arms.htm

RL
Michael F. McCartney
2013-02-17 05:08:59 UTC
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Post by re
Is there any known reason that the Kerr field colour changed from vert to gules and the unicorn's heads disappeared ?
The two Kerr families are related, but historically rivals. The difference in the arms represent older forms of cadency by changes of tincture & addition of charges. IIRC the Marquis of Lothian is the recognized chief of name & arms of Ker(r), & the Dukes of Roxburghe -- despite their higher rank in the peerage -- are a cadet line.

Mike~~

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