Proper voided, and fun with party

[Russ Johnson]

Hello, all.

I've been tinkering for some time with a design and have the basic idea using an elm leaf proper and an inverted chevron Or on a field sable.

So far, I have a working blazon, e.g. "Per inverted chevron, I: sable an elm leaf proper voided of the first; II: inverted chevronny of two, Or and sable." Still I have a few questions, to wit:

1: Is it allowed to have a charge "proper voided ...?"

2: Would it have been permissible to have "... sable and Or" or "... of three, sable and Or" in base, putting the sable in base next to sable in chief?

3: Could/should I have used "of the first" or "black" in place of "sable?" I know it's discouraged to name the same tincture twice, but does that rule hold only within a part or quartering? Also, I know there are some rare instances where ordinary English words (especially "gold") are correctly used in a blazon, but I can't seem to find the rules for how that works, exactly.

Thanks, all!

[o***@gmail.com]

I.Yes, you can do that. 'Proper' just means 'colour as in real life'. So 'a Leaf Proper, voided' would be just a leaf in the natural colours with the inside cut out parallel to the edges of the leaf leaving the edge. But then, is that a leaf in summer or autumn? I'm guessing, given the example of the Arms of Canada, that leaves that are proper are depicted as in nature 'normally', whilst they are in the fullness of summer, unless stated otherwise and thus a natural but not uniform green (as it would be if it was 'Vert'.

II.If its a charge like that it doesn't matter as long as the sable isn't on top of the other sable.
But I would really need the full blazon to give a proper answer.

III.The point of using 'Gold' in place of 'Or' is because 'Or' could be confused with the English word 'Or', and also because medieval heralds often used 'Gold' in place of 'Or' sometimes anyway. The use of terms like 'of the first', 'of the second' etc. is largely a product of the decline and debasement of heraldry in the eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries, when heralds would write confusing blazons just so they didn't have to use the same tincture name more than once, and is discouraged in modern heraldry. Remember, the whole point of blazon is so the reader can accurately recreate the Arms from the description, and if the blazon itself is confusing that defeats the object of the blazon in the first place. Rather, to give an example 'Sable, a chevron Or, on the chevron a roundel Sable (or 'also Sable') is fine. It's not so much following the 'rules' of blazon, it's just that the blazon should be clear and concise and easy to draw accurately from the blazon.

Hope that helps.

[o***@gmail.com]

as regards point II, that would be a division of the field so it wouldn't matter.

[Russ Johnson]

I.Yes, you can do that. 'Proper' just means 'colour as in real life'. So 'a Leaf Proper, voided' would be just a leaf in the natural colours with the inside cut out parallel to the edges of the leaf leaving the edge....

Excellent, what I thought. By the way, do I need to specify that the leaf is slipped if I want it to have a stem ("an elm leaf slipped proper")?

II.If its a charge like that it doesn't matter as long as the sable isn't on top of the other sable.
But I would really need the full blazon to give a proper answer.

Actually, what I gave was the whole blazon, though I'm still making changes. I had at one point included "a chief paly of nine gules and argent; on a canton azure a star comprising thirteen, six-pointed mullets argent: one, four, three, four, one," but it really didn't look like it belonged when drawn. Besides, I'm not sure I could/should put an azure canton adjacent to a pale of gules, right?

III.The point of using 'Gold' in place of 'Or' is because ... medieval heralds often used 'Gold' in place of 'Or' sometimes anyway. The use of terms like 'of the first', 'of the second' etc. is largely a product of the decline and debasement of heraldry in the eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries ... and is discouraged in modern heraldry. Remember, the whole point of blazon is so the reader can accurately recreate the Arms from the description ...
Hope that helps.

It does incredibly. All that counting was a real pain in the ... neck. Thanks!