Are these designs in use?

[RJO]

Heralds all: Here are two very crude versions of an arms design (hand-drawn on an envelope) that I'm experimenting with for a project. They aren't very complex, so I wouldn't be surprised if they have been "spoken for" previously (perhaps for centuries for all I know). Can anyone with good reference material at hand take a look and tell me if they seem to match anything that's already well (or obscurely) known?

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The two versions differ only in the main color. I'm not a blazon expert, but the left one would be something like: Or, a chevron azure between three (square) lozenges sable (two and one). The right one is the same, but Vert instead of Or (although it doesn't look very green on my screen).

Many thanks.

RJO

[Edward Hillenbrand]

I claim no knowledge of arms claimed by others, but first I would ask what country are you i? Americans have a lot of leeway. Second, ask the International Association of Amateur Heralds, Chris Green has a fantastic knowledge of arms used by many armigers over the years.

[RJO]

Post by Edward Hillenbrand
I claim no knowledge of arms claimed by others, but first I would ask what country are you i? Americans have a lot of leeway. Second, ask the International Association of Amateur Heralds, Chris Green has a fantastic knowledge of arms used by many armigers over the years.

Yes, I'm in the US, so probably beyond reach of the agents of the College of Arms. It would be a shame, however, if I used an arms design in a project and then later discovered that it matched the arms of some 15th-century duke famous for drinking the blood of kittens, or something like that. :-)

[Tim Powys-Lybbe]

Post by RJO

Post by Edward Hillenbrand
I claim no knowledge of arms claimed by others, but first I would ask what country are you i? Americans have a lot of leeway. Second, ask the International Association of Amateur Heralds, Chris Green has a fantastic knowledge of arms used by many armigers over the years.

Yes, I'm in the US, so probably beyond reach of the agents of the College of Arms. It would be a shame, however, if I used an arms design in a project and then later discovered that it matched the arms of some 15th-century duke famous for drinking the blood of kittens, or something like that. :-)

I have never heard it suggested that arms were world-wide. Each
sovereign state can do what it likes with its own laws and practices.
So all you have to worry about is the state you live in.

And the existance of the at least two (+Ulster?) heraldry bodies in the
UK proves that heraldry need only be unique within a heraldic principality.

Finally there are so many arms that are borne by many different people
that the issue is purely academic. And if you adopted particular arms
in your residency, what is wrong with someone in another residency then
adopting the same arms?

[N***@gmail.com]

Post by RJO
Heralds all: Here are two very crude versions of an arms design (hand-drawn on an envelope) that I'm experimenting with for a project. They aren't very complex, so I wouldn't be surprised if they have been "spoken for" previously (perhaps for centuries for all I know). Can anyone with good reference material at hand take a look and tell me if they seem to match anything that's already well (or obscurely) known?
http://rjohara.net/arms.jpeg
The two versions differ only in the main color. I'm not a blazon expert, but the left one would be something like: Or, a chevron azure between three (square) lozenges sable (two and one). The right one is the same, but Vert instead of Or (although it doesn't look very green on my screen).
Many thanks.
RJO

I'm not a huge expert by any means, but I can't think of anyone using the yellow version off the top of my head. The silence from everyone else (and some of them are big experts) strongly implies to me that if it's used (and it almost certainly is used by somebody somewhere) it's fairly obscure and you're fine.

The green version is definitely not used because it violates the rule of tincture. Black and Blue are colors, so they're only supposed to touch a metal (yellow/or and white/blanc are the widely recognized metals), not another color like Green.

Try the American Heraldry Society for more info on the subject. The rules (including the color-on-color one) are here:
http://www.americanheraldry.org/pages/index.php?n=Guide.Guidelines

Nick

[for Nicolai]

cmon .... of course one shouldn't use some other families Arms!!!!
... regardless where one lives!!!!!!!

[Tim Powys-Lybbe]

Post by for Nicolai
cmon .... of course one shouldn't use some other families Arms!!!!
... regardless where one lives!!!!!!!

I suspect that is not a rule that any King (or whatever) of Arms would
accept. The King (or whatever) is sovereign in his domain and he makes
the rules for that domain. If other people are sovereigns of other
domains, they can do what they like. And have. And will.

If there are no Kings (or whatever) of Arms in a domain then there are
no rules, end of story.

And in any case there are many, many cases of entirely different
families having the same arms. No-one does anything about this.

You have to provide evidence that your rules have some semblance of
adherence in the community of the heraldic games players. Exclamation
marks do not make rules!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[for Nicolai]

regardless if rules are present, there are some international rules lost
to you and/or in space and age,
rules of Honor, Honesty and Copyright Infringements!!!!!!!!!!!!

... sad day and age !!!

[for Nicolai]

Post by for Nicolai
regardless if rules are present, there are some international rules lost
to you and/or in space and age,
rules of Honor, Honesty and Copyright Infringements!!!!!!!!!!!!
... sad day and age !!!

....
next to being the "Laughing Stock" of Insiders and the like ...

[Robert dCZ]

rules of Honor, Honesty ... !

Indeed. The very rules of chivalry that are the basis on which so much rests that made our cultures fairly lasting. Bearing the arms of one's ancestor is a contribution to keeping that culture alive.
Of course, many arms were come by as a result of less than honourable deeds, but subsequent generations typically worked hard at making up for earlier blemishes.

And simply lifting someone else's arms (a la Cadillac) shows that those who did it not only didn't get the point, they are also too lazy to research their ancestry, not creative enough to come up with meaningful arms of their own and too tight to pay someone for it.

So, one might ask, why would they bother in the first place? Given their character it is very unlikely that anyone would give these arms credence anyway.